Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

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Wurmbunt
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Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#1

Post by Wurmbunt »

Hello,
did anyone have the taper for a short kosmic and is willing to share?
I want to build a rod for myself - not for commercial purposes!
A nother hobby of mine is making fountainpens and i have a small stock of original Celluloid rods from the 1920ies including ivoryn...
So i want do build a Kosmic Flyrod as close to the original as possible... Just i'm not able to find a taper!
Kind regards,
Andi
Kind regards,
Andi

jeffkn1
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#2

Post by jeffkn1 »

That's a tough one, not only because of its considerable rarity but because of the unique hardware. You'd be better off having one made for you by Dennis Menscer.
I have a modest collection of Kosmics but have never seen one under 8'. I know they made one.

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Gnome
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#3

Post by Gnome »

and I believe that single rod is stuck in a chickenwire and 2x4 enclosure in the basement of the college in Livingston MT. Where the FFF museum is stored away from the public. I too would love to have that taper.

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cwfly
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#4

Post by cwfly »

Gnome wrote:
07/22/20 07:37
and I believe that single rod is stuck in a chickenwire and 2x4 enclosure in the basement of the college in Livingston MT. Where the FFF museum is stored away from the public. I too would love to have that taper.
I think that information is inaccurate and about ten years out of date. The organization is now the Fly Fishers International and it moved from the Lincoln School (not college) in Livingston a bit south. It is now open. It has a website and a vimeo. It has photographs. It has a large library. It has been discussed in the past.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=54936&p=498816&hil ... ol#p498816

bluesjay
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#5

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I went to Yellowstone during the fires, and the, I guess, FFF museum was in West Yellowstone. They had a fabulous display of Kosmics. I probably have a few photos I could check, if I can find them.

Jay Edwards

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Wurmbunt
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#6

Post by Wurmbunt »

Hey guys,
thank you for your quick response!
I knew that these rods are rare, but i don't knew how rare for real...
Only one survived - o.k. it would not be realistic to ask these guys to cut their chickenwire, scrape off some old varnish and take a sharpe edged calliper to make some maesurements... Perhaps they will unwind a guid to give exact values every five inches? ;)
The kosmic hardware will not be a problem - i have a metal lathe handy and i do the hardware for my rods by myself (including the argatestripper/cutting the argate).
I also have some experience by working with celluloid - the real vintage stuff - not cellulose-acetat.
It has to be turned with care (better use water for cooling) the vintage material is extremly flammable - don't work with a open light at your original kosmic...

Image

Image
The celluloidtube in flames is a vintage "Kaweko"-material (a german company, which produces fountainpens in the 1930ties), but i think the kosmic reelseat will burn as well...
O.k. back to the taper - i think my rod will be a "kosmiclike" - what should i do - take a F.E. Thomas/Edwards/Payne/Hawes taper, or a longer kosmic taper (if Jeff is willing to share) and shrink it down?
Kind regards,
Andy
Kind regards,
Andi

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Gnome
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#7

Post by Gnome »

Andy
I will dig that taper up and post it as it is a really sweet 5 wt.

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Wurmbunt
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#8

Post by Wurmbunt »

Whow,
that will be great!
Thank you very much for your effort.
Kind regards,
Andi

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cwfly
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#9

Post by cwfly »

The 7 1/2' was a listed model in 1904.
Image

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RWHoffhines
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#10

Post by RWHoffhines »

One thing, in 1904, wasn't Calcutta Cane the material then in use? How does that translate into Tonkin? The taper is the main thing, so if not a replica, I bet it makes a fine rod!

jeffkn1
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#11

Post by jeffkn1 »

RWHoffhines wrote:
07/26/20 11:13
One thing, in 1904, wasn't Calcutta Cane the material then in use? How does that translate into Tonkin? The taper is the main thing, so if not a replica, I bet it makes a fine rod!
Good point. In response, I will first state that we have only general ideas of when specific Kosmics were made, meaning it's anybody's guess what year the changeover came. Second, they most likely remained smooth, full-working actions up through the years that Ed Payne made them for HA Whittemore. If I had my pick it would be a high serial numbered rod from the Whittemore years. That would put it into the Jim Payne era and would more likely offer dry fly attributes.
I fished my Jim Payne 8'9" Kosmic one evening last summer and while it was a ball to fish it was still a bit shy of what it needed to have for point and shoot casting to moving gulpers in stillwater fishing. I couldn't pick up 40' line quickly and fire off a cast in another direction, though that might have been easier to accomplish with real silk. I'll be back up there next month and maybe I can road test a Zhou line on it.
But, the earlier rods from Ed Payne should be fun as long as their limitations are kept in mind. How can they not be at 3oz?

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Wurmbunt
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#12

Post by Wurmbunt »

Hello and thank you all for your response!
1904 (or earlyer) the material of choice might be Calcutta cane - or tonking! This was the time where tonking begun to replace the Calcutta cane.
Nevertheless the rodaction is defined by the taper...
Gnome wrote:
07/22/20 22:21
Andy
I will dig that taper up and post it as it is a really sweet 5 wt.
A sweet 5 wt in Calcutta cane might be a stiffer one in tonking or even a 5/6 wt - the carakteristic should not change, by using the same taper.
In aged times the AFTMA lineclasses were not be introduced, so the type of Silkline might be a HDH.
There are more questions about the original kosmic - Calcutta- or Tonkingcane, the way the swelled butt is made ( mortised or not), the type of node spacing, or the Grip - ratan or kork sheed, or -rings.
Any help will be welcome!
Kind regards,
Andi

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Wurmbunt
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#13

Post by Wurmbunt »

Hello,
while waiting for the taper (i will really kind to get it), i decided to make the reel first.
The kosmic- brand includes a various type of suppliers whos made fishing tackle for resale. One of them was Julius vom Hofe... The kosmic reels were also made by other suppliers - but there is a picture of a disassembeled reel in the www. which is made by Julius vom Hofe for "kosmic" soled by "Spelding".
So this reel should be the right for my new rod!
German silver is qiet heavy so, the frame is made of Aluminium. The side plates will be hard rubber - Red motteled - because black is too common...

Image
Sideplates of Aluminium and the Spool (made of a single block of Aluminium)

Image
Red motteled hard rubber worked at the lathe.
Not original will be the bearing construktion - two axial-ballbearings and a needle-bearing at the crank should make the turning soft.


Image

Image
Really nice red motteled hard rubber!

Image
The Click- system and the handle is missing, but it will be the next!
Kind regards,
Andi

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Short Tip
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#14

Post by Short Tip »

Andi, that is quite a reel, thanks for showing it.

mrampant
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#15

Post by mrampant »

That is a sweet looking reel, very nicely done .
Cheers ,
Mark
He who shall not be able to make a trout fly, after studying these diagrams and directions, must be deficient either in brains or in manual dexterity. : Edward Fitzgibbon 1853

headwaters
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#16

Post by headwaters »

I'm always amazed at the talent demonstrated on this Forum! That reel looks like it will be fabulous. Thanks for sharing.

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Wurmbunt
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Re: Kosmic 7' or 7 1/2' taper

#17

Post by Wurmbunt »

Thank you guys for your response!
If there is any interest for going into the details, i think i should start a thread "making of" in the classic reels subforum...
Here there is the place to discuss tapers.
Kind regards,
Andi

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