Tapers: where do you start?

The exchange of tapers forum is for classic and personally developed tapers. The definition of classic tapers are those tapers that were developed by rodmakers that are no longer alive. Please understand that rod makers who have developed their tapers, and are active in the community, should not have their tapers cloned, or shared, without their permission, please refrain for asking for those tapers as it infringes on the maker.

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Pati
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Tapers: where do you start?

#1

Post by Pati »

Hi

I’d like to start learning about the « classic » tapers of the masters (Dickerson, Payne, Gillum, Leonard, Powell, Garrisson etc.). Is there a good book presenting a selection - as subjective as this may be - of the all time greatest tapers and their properties? Ideally something across makers/brands, and also covering the basis of creating tapers (not about construction but rather about design/calculation)?

If all that exist in one single book (at least covering say a dozen of tapers ) that would be great, if it has to be through 3-4 books then so be it!!!

This is just as an introduction, then I hope to be able to dig further in other books but at the moment I m looking where to start really...

Thanks

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Tom Smithwick
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#2

Post by Tom Smithwick »

I don't think there is any specific book that really talks about how to design tapers. Certainly, there are books that will help, and I hope others will join in here with specific recommendations. A while back, I wrote a little essay explaining what the basic terms we use to describe the types of basic cane rod tapers actually mean. You can find that here:
http://www.flyfisher.com/A_Look_At_Bamb ... apers.html
The only way to really understand what tapers are about is to cast a lot of rods, and then study the tapers. That may sound impossible, but it can be done by attending the various gatherings that take place around the country in more normal times. You can see a lot of taper charts easily by downloading the RodDNA program, and there are several databases elsewhere online. They are a huge advantage that was not available to rod makers until fairly recently.
I believe it would help you a lot to understand what is in the databases if you understand the Garrison stress curve concept, as explained in Carmichael's excellent book about Everett Garrison's methods. There are also explanations online.
Understand, I am not trying to discourage you, far from it, I consider it a fascinating topic. It does take some time and effort however, so expect to be engaged in it for a while.

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Tim Anderson
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#3

Post by Tim Anderson »

I am a person who much prefers to see things graphically. So, when I began making cane rods, I graphed in various ways (using Excel) numerous trout tapers I found on the internet. That included graphing, for example, all 5 weights on a single graph. That helped me see the relationship between a description or personal experience of a rod's action action and the shape of the taper graph. In producing my own tapers from that information, I averaged and otherwise analyzed the tapers that seemed like they would produce a rod I liked. Then I graphed, built, and evaluated the rods.

I need the graphic depiction of a taper's shape. Tom likes using stress curves. Some makers can go by a description and others can use a list of taper numbers. I think each person needs to find their own way to understand tapers. Fortunately, there are many good sources of classic and other tapers on the internet.

Tim

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henkverhaar
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#4

Post by henkverhaar »

Tom Smithwick wrote:
03/07/21 09:57
The only way to really understand what tapers are about is to cast a lot of rods, and then study the tapers.
And make them. I think I started 'understanding' taper design (a little) after about the 30th blank I made...

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carl otto
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#5

Post by carl otto »

Pati:

There is no one single book to satisfy your search. The following is a brief list that each come at it from that author's perspective;

The Lovely Reed, by Jack Howells: has a good listing of tapers of great makers and brief descriptions

Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Rod, by Mauer and Elser: About a dozen rod tapers with brief descriptions

A Masters Guide...Garrison, by Hoagy Carmichael: has Garrison's math derivations for his rod tapers along with a numbers of his tapers

A Rod with a Soul, by Per Brandin: Gives some great insight into the rod taper derivations of E. C. Powell and actions

You get through these with understanding and you would be started down the path.

It has been said with proven authority, the best rod designers are excellent fly casters. If you do not know how to put a rod through its paces how can you possible gain the insight to evaluate it? There are also very good casters, who do not build, who can pick up a rod, work it, and then give some pretty spot on critiques of the action down to where they could be improved. Its always of interest to hang with these folks to pick up their wisdom.

Have fun!

Carl

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BigTJ
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#6

Post by BigTJ »

You should buy Per Brandin’s book on EC Powell. EC Powell designed a full suite of actions that includes just about every conceivable taper. I firmly believe that the longer hollow built EC Powell tapers are the most useful and best casting bamboo rods ever made and should be the starting point for all bamboo rod makers and fishermen.

I would also get the Carmichael/Garrison book. If you want to make great shorter solid built rods, the Garrison straight line tapers are fantastic. The book also includes all the detail you will ever need to know about hand planing a fly rod. The rest you can get off the internet.

Once you have the fundamentals from these two books go out and cast as many classic rods as you can and find the makers you dig. Young, Payne, Thomas, Heddon, Granger, Gillum, Dickerson, Winston, Orvis, modern makers too- there are jillions of them. But before you go down that rabbit hole stick get you head around the systematic approach from Powell and Garrison it will keep you focused and help you understand the range of tapers from progressive to regressive and how everything fits into that range.

Good luck,

John

PS - Be careful with the Garrison stress curves. They do not represent realistic stresses in a fly rod. It’s too long of an explanation for one post but as an engineer and mathematical modeler my advice to beginning makers is to cast rods and think about how the rod’s material distribution (ie taper)affects bending. The rest of the stuff in the book is really good. I respect that others disagree with me on this so your mileage may vary.

m42
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#7

Post by m42 »

Two more to add to the list:

Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods by Wayne Cattanach

Cane Rods Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#8

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I'm not a rod maker, but I feel that Split & Glued did a decent job of explaing taper design. Perhaps rodmakers whom have read this book will comment as to whether this book is worth adding to you library as a fledgling rodmaker.

Cheers,
Joe

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mer
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#9

Post by mer »

Disclaimer, not a rodmaker, but an engineer that likes looking and thinking about this stuff.
I'll start off saying all the books already mentioned are good. They have numbers, they have "reasons". "Split and Glued" is good because it's a different take.
Now, my opinions. Feel free to stop reading right now :)
Tapers are numbers, the trick is understanding how those numbers translate to the feel of a rod. Experiment: get your hands on a bunch of say 8ft 5wts, different tapers. Take 30 ft of level 5 wt out of the tip top, then tape the rest to the reel seat (you are trying to keep the same loading on the rods). Now cast the rods, concentrate on how each on bends, how the line unrolls. That is the important part.
Now comes the hard part of the experiment:
graph all the tapers, so you can compare them. This is where "Split and Glued" and "Tips and Tapers" come in. Plot the straight line for each taper, then the actual taper against the straight line.

What you wind up with:
Straight line comparisons: steeper slope the rod should be (feel) faster (bending more in the upper portions of the rod).
Actual vs straight line comparisons: if a taper dimension is above the straight line, it is "stiffer". Below, "bendier".

The graphs (stress or dimension) are simply a representation of how a rod bends (bending directly corresponds to how it feels). Find the feel you like, look at the graphs, try and guess how changes in the graph relate to changes in the feel.

If you graph a bunch of Payne rods, you will see similar curves. That indicates similar feel, similar bending, regardless of line weight. Then do the same with Garrison, Gillum, etc.

Do an internet search on "hexrod fly rod" to get to the hexrod database and program. Start mucking around looking at tapers that have already been input and you can get a good understanding.

Second volume of Trout by Ernest Schwiebert has a lot of words about different bamboo rods by different makers. May not be exactly what you are looking for, but it may be useful in your quest.

Sorry if this went long, but it is easy to get wrapped up in "tapers" and sometimes, my fingers want to put out lots of words.

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BigTJ
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#10

Post by BigTJ »

m42 wrote:
03/23/21 06:39
Two more to add to the list:

Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods by Wayne Cattanach

Cane Rods Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould

On the second title be careful. There are many obvious errors in the Gould taper database. Typos and mis-labeled rods. A good book just use your noggin.

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Dr_Don
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Re: Tapers: where do you start?

#11

Post by Dr_Don »

Pati -

You have already received excellent advice from folks with tons of experience about how to increase your understanding of tapers. As a newbie myself, one other resource that has really helped my conceptual understanding are some essays and graphics on Chris Carlin's website>>

http://carlinbamboo.com/essays/deflection.htm

http://carlinbamboo.com/essays/actionvspeed.htm

For me, these helped tremendously (and graphically) to understand the basic nature of some well-known classic tapers, and how they compare. Poke around through his other essays as well. Again, I'm just a newbie, and more experienced heads may have other comments on how accurate or germane these graphics are - but assuming they're accurate, they were very helpful to me.

Lovely Reed and Per Brandin's book on E.C. Powell are also great - still working my way through the reading lists above.

Tight lines!
Don

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