Is this possible?

[arfly]

I am thinking about a rod that may not even be possible. What I am thinking about is a 6' 9" to 7' rod to cast a DT4F. I like the 444 Sylk. I also like a medium fast action. I would prefer a 3 piece, but a 2 piece would be fine. Now the hard part, 2 oz. or under. I like a small cork grip, no winding check with a hook keeper and a cork reel seat and double slide bands so that should help with the weight. Is it possible to build such a rod? What taper, and would it be best as a quad and need to be hollow built?

[fishbum]

Your rod would need to be hex because more weight can be removed by hollowing with hex than quad. You would also want your rod to be a two piece rod. 2 oz. or less would be tough but right around 2.2 or 2.1 is doable. I say that because I have a 7' 9" 5 weight that weighs in at an even 2.5 oz. I have also made a 6', 2 weight rod that weighed 1.44 oz.

Your goal of 2 oz. or less is right on the edge of how light you can make a rod.

Jerry

I just weighed a 7' 9" 4 weight, 2 piece with NS hardware an it was 2.81 oz.

[Ron Barch]

I think this is very doable. I would love the challenge. Contact me at aldercreek@core.com or aldercreekrods.com Ron

[bvandeuson]

Just for kicks I just weighed my 2pc, 7' 4wt, which came in at 3.9oz, but I don't notice it because it has a fat grip (I have big hands) and the rod is so short. Cortland DT4 Sylk is the line I use, balanced by a Heddon 310 reel.

BB

[arfly]

It sounds like it can be done or at least I can get close to the 2 oz. mark. As far as casting and fishing goes, the weight of the rod is really not an issue. I have an Abel TR1 which weighs 3.9 oz. on my scale and I would like a rod for it. I think I could go up to a 2.5 oz rod and have the outfit balance the way I like. I also want to get a Galvan Brookie B3-4 which weighs under 3 oz. and I think it would require a 2oz. rod to balance to my liking.

[gooseberryrods]

It would help your cause if you ventilated your grip and seat and used aluminum rings instead of NS. You could also consider an oil finish and truncated ferrules. This should get you under 2 oz. with the right taper for a 2-pc. solid-built rod.

Scott

[Tim Anderson]

I'm sorry, but I just have to ask: Why? Or perhaps better, what leads you to want a cane rod that light? As Ron Barch has already indicated, it is a challenge he would love, but something that light is more in the realm of graphite rods.

Tim

[oldtrout]

Easy, make it out of graphite.
A sub 2 oz. bamboo rod might need to be under 7'. Maybe Leon Hanson or Wayne Maca could make such a rod. I'd pose the challenge to Ron since he is willing.

I have an 8'6" 3 weight that's under 3oz. It's almost not even there.

[fishbum]

I can make that rod.

Jerry

[arfly]

As to the question "why?" There are specific reels I want a bamboo rod to go with them and the lighter weight is where I will need to be. I know some of you guys on here would do a fine job with any rod you build, but I will have a local man build this rod. I have known him for a long time. I just have to have the numbers and tell him exactly how I want it made. He can machine the slide bands and ferules if necessary. What are your thoughts on a Garrison 193 or Garrison 201? I have a 190 by Art Weiler and like it, weight is 2 3/8 oz. on my scale. I think if it was hollowed, it would be a good bit lighter. Surprisingly, the butt section on the 190 weighs 2 oz. and the tip only weighs 3/8 oz.

[16pmd]

In my opinion, at that short rod length and light weight (even if over 2 ozs.), balance and total weight is hardly worth considering except maybe at the extremes. The place where there is most potential for removing weight is low down in the rod, especially below your hand. Reducing weight there would have far less effect or even a negative effect in terms of balance than weight farther out the rod (and there isn't much potential for weight reduction in a 3/8 oz. tip), so I think what you're trying to accomplish needs some fundamental rethinking before ordering a custom rod.

[gooseberryrods]

I like ultra light-tackle and find it a joy to use for the smallish fish I pursue. If it makes you happy go for it. I enjoy building and fishing ultra-light para tapers with vent grips where less is more. A para taper will have a flat butt (less weight), so it might be something to consider.

Scott

[piscator]

Hi, stimulated by this discussion I looked through my diaries and weighed some of the 7ft #4 rods/blanks. I have a new blank (Heddon Folsum) that weighs 56g (2oz), of which 13g is for the tip. Thus, the first message is: one can not get the tip significantly lighter (max 2g) by hollowing. One can save approximately 15% through agressive hollowing the but (makes 43*0.15= 6g). Then use streamlined Bamboo ferrule instead of a metal one (adds 2g to the blank). So the basis is 50g for the ferruled blank. I also weighed a finished rod that was lightly hollowed and has streamlined Bamboo ferrule (same taper as the blank). This has a pure cork handle and reel seat ( sliding wedding ring which is relatively heavy) -- alltogether the weight of that rod is 102g (half of which is blank, the other half is components)-- Components (short ventilated grip, alu sliding rings) would allow you to end up with a weight of say 80g --- 2.8 oz.
Have fun to beat that,

[Crepuscular]

I have an Abel TR1 which weighs 3.9 oz. on my scale and I would like a rod for it. I think I could go up to a 2.5 oz rod and have the outfit balance the way I like. I also want to get a Galvan Brookie B3-4 which weighs under 3 oz. and I think it would require a 2oz. rod to balance to my liking.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider "balanced"? I'm only asking because I have a TR1 that feels pretty nice on a 7' 4wt that I own.

Eric

[fishbum]

I also weighed a finished rod that was lightly hollowed and has streamlined Bamboo ferrule (same taper as the blank). This has a pure cork handle and reel seat ( sliding wedding ring which is relatively heavy) -- alltogether the weight of that rod is 102g (half of which is blank, the other half is components)-- Components (short ventilated grip, alu sliding rings) would allow you to end up with a weight of say 80g --- 2.8 oz.
Have fun to beat that,

OK,
already have with a 7' 9" 4 weight that weighs 2.81 oz. with NS cap & ring reel seat, and an NS ferrule. Or a 7' 9" 5 weight that weighs 2.5 oz with aluminum hardware.

Jerry

[arfly]

I have an Abel TR1 which weighs 3.9 oz. on my scale and I would like a rod for it. I think I could go up to a 2.5 oz rod and have the outfit balance the way I like. I also want to get a Galvan Brookie B3-4 which weighs under 3 oz. and I think it would require a 2oz. rod to balance to my liking.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider "balanced"? I'm only asking because I have a TR1 that feels pretty nice on a 7' 4wt that I own.

Eric

On the little rods, I like the fulcrum or balance point to be about 6-6 1/2" from the reel which depending on the length of the grip is usually about the last half inch of the grip or where my index finger typically rests while casting/fishing. I don't like an outfit to feel like most of the weight is out on the tip rather than the handle/reel. I hope that makes sense. I am really going for a rod that will balance like I described with a Galvan Brookie. I just like the clean and simple look and feel of those reels.

Jerry, just so I understand this right, you are saying your 5wt is actually lighter than your 4wt of the same length.

Now on a completely different subject, I am waiting for an 8' 3pc 5wt quad Sweetgrass Mantra to arrive. I always hate waiting for a rod that is shipping. You never know what condition it will arrive in.

[fishbum]

Jerry, just so I understand this right, you are saying your 5wt is actually lighter than your 4wt of the same length.

You understand correctly. The difference is the hardware. The 4 weight has a NS cap and ring reel seat with a hardwood spacer and a NS ferrule. The 5 weight has an aluminum cap and ring reel seat on a cork spacer and an aluminum ferrule.

I just weighed my NS cap and ring hardware in NS and it weighed .36 oz. The same hardware in aluminum would weigh 0.11 oz. An aluminum ferrule is 31 % lighter than a NS ferrule. If the 4 weight had the same hardware as the 5 weight it would weigh less than 2.5 oz.

Jerry

[BigTJ]

I just weighed out my completely finished solid-built 7' 4 wt, with koa morticed wood spacer and NS rings, full grip with cork butt, and NS SS truncated ferrule, it weighs in at 2.8 oz soaking wet. The reason I mention this is taper selection plays as big a role in being able to get under 2 oz as anything, at max a straight line and better a regressive taper would be the way to go, tapers like that heddom folsum mentioned above has a lot more wood in it than my rod, which is semi-para and had a butt flat to flat measurement of .270, and a tip measurement of 0.062, and yes it's a true 4 wt.

Not difficult at all to imagine this rod scaled down 3" shorter, aggressively hollowed, carbon fiber ferrules, with oil finish, .thin aluminum rings or hardy style hardware on a short morticed cork insert (just big enough to fit seat), ventilated 8 cork grip (small dia, combine Leondard and Young) coming in under 2 oz, about a 28% weight reduction.

I am not sure if getting under 2 oz is really necessary, this rod I have balances fine with light reels in the range of 4 oz. Rather than geeking out on this, just scale down a light perfectionist or scale up a midge and use light hardware and end up with a rod a bit north of 2 oz and have fun.

[64Emmons]

Leonard made an 8 foot rod that weighted 2 1/8th ounces, but it is a silly rod. It had intermediates and NS cap and band over Spanish Cedar. Wire loop tip tops and three piece. the tips were 0.048-0.050".

FWIW, I would focus on how I want the rod to perform rather than its weight.

[arfly]

That 8' Leonard sounds like a buggy whip. I am assuming that one didn't go over to well. I talked to Gordon today and he is going to get started on my rod. He shared several tapers he has built and tried and what he thought would work well for the type of fishing we do in this area. I am going with a Garrison 193 taper. He is going to Hollow it and put a small cork grip and double slide band cork reel seat on it. It should come out close to 2 oz. I think he said it would have a .277 butt and .063 tip, with some other numbers in-between, but I got kind of lost in the numbers especially when he started talking about his new lathe so that may not be right. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will keep you all posted on how it goes.