This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!
new to the forum and I have been looking to get some info on a rod I have had for awhile. It was my grandfathers and I don't use it. I might part with it someday and would like to know approximate value. any more questions let me know.
thanks in advance, Joey
rod description
Winchester decal on but section (photo)
Winchester logo on bag
4 -pieces all the same length (extra tip)
each piece being 34 3/4" long
all guides present and windings are solid with no frays or chips in finish.
rod seat is wood, with aluminum ca
I see some conditional issues that will affect value. It appears at least two ferrules may be loose. The winding check appears cracked, and most of the wraps look like they were re-wrapped at some point. it also looks like the ferrule pins are missing which could indicate a ferrule reset in the past. The stripper does not appear to be original The good things are it looks complete and full length with original tube and bag which is important.
Is there a 4 digit number on the reel seat butt cap or just the made in USA?? That is where they typically put model numbers. Seems like a nice rod with the "Frosted" hardware. Mid 1930's rod???? Post Edwards???
late 20's,early 30's, def post Edwards.
most likely a 60xx which was Winchester's less expensive line.
can't say i've seen that reel seat before. maybe a Winchester to HI
transition rod.
+1 to all above.
I gave the rod another good once over and couldn't find any serial number. I also see what you mean about condition issues.
My thoughts on the rod was that it was probably a general production rod from the era you suggested. I thought this site would be the place to find out. I just wanted to make sure I didn't have some little gem that I should be keeping in my gun cabinet not leaned a corner. This is a great site by the way. Lots of great info.
Any specific info is greatly appreciated. Ball park value? $50, $100?
Winchester rods seem to go for a little more than most trade rods. Most likely because of the name. In my experience, trade rod collectors accept less condition issues, because it generally costs more to get the rod restored or fixed than it's worth. That's why trade rods in bad condition are great rods for hobby restorations. You get some restoration knowledge and practice, but you won't trash a valuable classic rod. My advice is get a book on restorations and repairs, fix a few wraps and you will have a great family piece to fish and pass down to your grandchildren. When I asked my daughter which rods of mine she wanted after I die, she didn't care about my antique Leonards. She wanted one of my rods that I made myself, and my Orvis superfine bamboo rod. I asked her why those? They don't have as much value? She said, because they were the rods I fished. Don't sell it man, keep it in the family. Now if you run across a rod marked C F Murphy, forget everything I just said and call me to buy it from you. Lol haha
Mark, I have read differently. Pg. 15 of Mike Sinclair's book: "Even the fine old William Mills & Son "Standard" Rods were not of their own manufacturer. These were actually made for Wm. Mills by the H.L. Leonard Rod Co. That means that Leonard was a maker of trade rods." However, he goes on to say rods that if they were marked with the makers names and a sole agents stamp are not trade rods. Winchester rods are not marked with either a sole agents stamp or makers name. Production refers to the way the rod was made. If it was made with machinery and by more than one person it is a production rod according to AJ Campbell pg. 299. I think this would make a Winchester both a trade and production rod. I'm only going by what I read in books.
Tony
You would be wrong. Most Winchester rods are marked with their maker's name and model number. Winchester Fishing Tackle, a Division of Winchester Repeating Arms Co., was a production rod & reel company for over a decade. They didn't make many "trade" rods that we know of. Are you sure you know what a "trade" rod is?
Mark
Mark, i just posted what both AJ Campbell and Mike Sinclair wrote in their books. Was there a rod maker ( actual person named Winchester that made those rods and labeled those rods as such maker? High end Winchester rods were made be E.W. Edwards. So for example, the rods would have to be stamped E.W. Edwards maker or E.W. Edwards with Winchester sole agents to not be considered a trade rod. At least according to the books I have mentioned.
A trade rod is a rod made for a another retail company, by a rod company or individual maker, not attributed to the maker or rod company on the stamp or label. Winchester was not a rod making company. They were a sporting goods company that sold rifles, roller skates, pocket knives, flashlights, as well as fishing rods and tackle. Pg.145 AJ Campbell's book.
You're confused. Put your books away and use the "search" function for "trade rods". Winchester was a company who made production rods and reels. Has nothing to do with anyone's name. Montague City Rod Co. probably made 1/2 million trade rods and never had anyone name Montague associated with their company. "Trade" rods are simply rods produced by just such a production rod company (like Winchester, Heddon, Montague, etc.) for sale to the trade. They are rods built for and supplied to endless retailers, wholesalers and jobbers across the country. Some were unmarked and sold as generic models by hardware stores, sporting good dealers and other retailers or wholesalers. Some carried just the decal or handwritten script of the name of the seller or perhaps the name of a model line that they sold. Others were stamped by the production rod maker (on reel seats, butt caps, etc.) with a model name or retailer's name. Many of these "trade" rods are the equivalent to rod models from the company's regular line of rods. For example, Heddon made several different models marked "Folsom" on the rod shaft. They were built for and sold exclusively by H & D Folsom Arms of New York. They were Heddon rods in every respect, roughly equivalent to many models from their regular line, yet nowhere were they marked "Heddon". These are Heddon "TRADE RODS" built for H & D Folsom Arms. That's what Trade rods are. Rods made for the trade. FYI, WINCHESTER WAS INDEED A ROD MAKING COMPANY!! I'm outa here.
Mark, I hope you are not getting upset. However, maybe to understand your position better I will ask a question. I have a Union Hardware ( high end with nickel silver fittings) it has a reel seat stamped/marked Union Hardware. They also sold roller skates and such. Do you consider it a trade rod? If so, what would be the difference between a stamped Union Hardware Co. and a stamped Winchester Company? Both sold rods made by other makers for the trade. I have to ask... Why should I put my books away? Are they wrong?
Neither Winchester or Union Hardware sold rods made by other makers. They were both rod production companies who built and sold their own rods. Your rod is a Union Hardware rod made by Union Hardware Co. of Torrington, Conn. A marked Winchester rod is a rod made by Winchester Fishing Tackle of New Haven, Conn. Just because Winchester hired Edwards to run their rod dept., it doesn't make their rods Edwards trade rods. I think that might be where you're confused.
My faulty books (lol joking) say Winchester purchased Edwards rod company. I would think this would be similar to say Montague purchasing Chubb? Montague is considered a trade rod if I'm not mistaken. om sure both companies had rod makers on hand. Still the rods do not carry a makers name or sole agents stamp. Another good example would be Orvis. We know Wes Jordan made rods for Orvis for awhile. Are they trade rods since his name doesn't appear on them? What about when Wes worked for South Bend? Are South bend rods trade rods? I would say yes to all as trade rods. I actually find this conversation interesting.
To clear up a little confusion, I'm not saying they are Edwards trade rods, I'm saying they are Winchester trade rods. If they were marked as Edwards " maker" or Winchester sole agents of Edwards then they would not be trade rods. I think what we are debating is a very thin line in definition. Do you consider trade rods to be rods only sold to outlets such as S,D&G?
I'm reading in Sinclair's book that "the products [Winchester] sold were usually marked with the famous logo, though many were not actually made in their own factories. In addition, Edwards left the company and they continued to exploit his name in advertising. Which leads to the question... Who made the Winchester rods after he left? Could they have bought rods from H&I at that point?H&I did make Winchester labeled rods, according to Sinclair's book. I would think that would make at least some Winchester rods trade rods.
I'm confused... Are people not allowed to disagree on this board? It's not like I haven't given documented support for my conclusions. I'm not upset you disagree with me. I found it to be an interesting conversation. My bad. Sorry you feel this way.
I did a quick search on Winchester, and I found their label was called a trade label, their catalogs called trade catalogs, their company includes the word trade in its title. Not trying to drive a stake it lol, but you can't blame me for thinking the goods a trade company sold were considered trade items. Have a good day, Mark no hard feelings on my end.
We would like to thank you, Ed Ponder. Fantastic job. No hard feelings at all. Good luck on your further "research". And please, for my own reference, tell me the title of the Winchester company.
