Antique Abbey & Imbrie

[bambookill]

Ok, so I came into possession of a marked Abbey & Imbrie rod that features a rattan wound grip, all seamed and soldered components, eight strip round bamboo, spiked ferrules, double ring guides with a wood form. It's is marked Abbey & Imbrie New, York, and the word Best in italics on the butt cap. Gorgeous rod! Now, to figure out who made this rod?

First, I have to mention one more aspect of the rod. It has sculpted rails on the seat with a small little "x" on the top of each rail.

After doing some reading, I read Abbey and Imbrie took over Andrew Clerk Co. around 1875 by Charles F. Imbrie. At that time Imbrie dropped C.F. Murphy for H.L. Leonard. According to A.J. Campbell, Leonard only stayed with Abbey & Imbrie for two years. After that, he says rods were made by Pritchard Brothers, Horrocks and Ibbotson (quality rods), and Thomas and Edwards.

Ok so, this rod doesn't have any of the Pritchard/Landman hardware that is typically seen. In addition, I read the rods Leonard made for them had his name on them or the addition of his name and Abbey & Imbrie stamped on his rods.

So, does anyone know of any makers that I didn't list that made early 8 strip rods for Abbey & Imbrie that I haven't listed? Or do you recognize these features?

[bambookill]

[bambookill]

[Dylan518]

No idea but it’s a cool looking rod

[2dabacking]

So, does anyone know of any makers that I didn't list that made early 8 strip rods for Abbey & Imbrie that I haven't listed?

Nice purchase. I believe Chubb and Montague also made rods for A&I in the 1800s. Those rails have been a mystery for some time.

[roycestearns]

Are those sculptured reel seat rails a Montague identifier?

Where's Rex?

[2dabacking]

Are those sculptured reel seat rails a Montague identifier?

No

[bambookill]

Update: after scratching my head for awhile on this rod, I think this Abbey & Imbrie rod was possibly made by Edward Vom Hofe. So, I have some questions. First, was there a connection between A&I and EVH? Both N.Y. Tackle. Secondly, I've read EVH made 8 strip rods. The hardware is clearly rolled and seamed. Now to get to how I concluded this.

First, it doesn't have any Landman features other than its 8 strip. Secondly, I recently viewed a Leonard A&I "best," and the A&I Leonards definitely looked like a few Leonards, I own, of that era in the style of the maker. Finally, this rod has features of a few EVH rods I've seen on the Internet and books. The hoods on the reel seat have a more "square look," while Leonards tend to be round in shape. In addition, the reel seat band has two knurled edges side by side just like the EVH rods. Next step is examining the ferrule welts to see if they match. I'm open to any other ideas. I could be wrong. Any input is welcome.

[bambookill]

Oh crap! I forgot Julius Vom Hofe made reels for A&I. I think I read somewhere that Edward Vom Hofe had a different shop that was separate from Julius's shop.

[wrong66]

Landman made his own hardware, which was rolled, seamed and soldered.

[bambookill]

Ok, so far we have Montague (I think it's too old to be a Montague, so let's say Chubb), a Landman ( but if it is Landman it's not typical of his work) and I think a E. vom Hofe
Does anyone have a Chubb, Landman, or Vom Hofe with this reel seat?

[2dabacking]

There are still quite a few unidentified early rods. What does a Gray, Ward, Bartlett (pre-Montague) rod look like. Then there is the issue of early (pre-1884?) Chubb hardware, which was supplied to rod makers. Without a signature, who made it? What does all of the early Chubb hardware look like for that matter? Add in that some of the smaller shops, like Philbrook, and questionably the vom Hofe's, Conroy's, and other machinists, made components, and it gets more interesting.

Some good information here:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=37875

There is a Prichard Bros. with similar reel seat rails. It sold at Crossroads last auction in April 2016.

Edit - Prichard Bros. rod can be found at liveauctioneers.

[bambookill]

Yeah the earlier the rod, the harder it gets for sure. I will take a look at that info you provided. Appreciate any help. This reel seat is very large even for its day. Almost looks like it was used to club the trout in the stream lol
It makes my early Leonard's (one being Bangor Leonard and a sole agents) and Wheeler (Acme) reel seats look small. Hard to tell that from the picture, I guess.

[2dabacking]

Ok, I spent some time reviewing old catalogs. To answer one part of your question, the answer is, yes. Bartlett supplied rods to A&I in the 1880s; Montague (which included Chubb and others at this point) supplied rods to A&I in the 1890s.

Nonetheless, I doubt that these were exclusive agreements with A&I, so it is still debatable who made your A&I “Best” rod, especially if rod makers were getting supplies from these big suppliers.

It may not be a coincidence, however, that the Bartlett catalog (for ease of reading, relevant portions of Tom's post copied below) shows “Best Hexagonal Section Split Bamboo Rods” with descriptions that line up quite well with the A&I catalog descriptions. Both A&I and Bartlett were selling “Best” fly rods in nearly identical Light (10’), Medium (10 ½’), and Heavy (11’) configurations at the same time.

To me, the evidence is compelling enough to lean towards Bartlett (and successors) as a supplier to/of your rod. The next step would be to connect the dots among all of the rods with those “x” marked rails.

Kudos, again, on such a great find. I’ll follow up below with a few relevant scans of A&I catalogs so you can see/read for yourself. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, and analyses by others as well.
Best wishes,
Joel

There are no marked Bartlett rods. The pictures below are scanned from the Bartlett catalog belonging to the Amherst Library. It is mind-boggling, but very revealing.

The catalog is 56 pages long and lists more than 300 rod models by model number available for wholesale. The best 20 split bamboo rod models could be ordered individually at $25-$30 each (see page 7).

Rod Hardware:

They made and sold every imaginable type of reel seat, guide,
butt cap, and tiptop – priced only by the gross or by the box.



In addition, EPB offered to make any rod configuration that could be described.
This is why there are so many unmarked trade rods. The 1891 Chubb wholesale and retail catalog is equally long and very similarly organized. Then, there was Montague ... These three factories alone, not even counting Malleson-Bartlett made 75% of all rods made in the U.S. That means they made at least 90% of all unmarked rods that you've ever seen. There should be a pinned topic under the Appraisals and Identification forum, that says "With 90% confidence, sight unseen, we identify that your unmarked pre-1905 rod was made by either Chubb, Montague or Bartlett." Not many places where you can beat those odds.

[bambookill]

Joel, this is some good info. I agree those little x's hold the answer. I had not considered Bartlett. My knowledge of Bartlett is limited. Now the question is, did Bartlett make 8 strip rods: my rod being an 8 strip. It's weird, but I have been finding more 8 strip rods lately. I had another post this last week on an 8 strip Chubb I just picked up.

[cwfly]

Since I have a rod, butt, two mids, two tips, mortised, hanging rings, spiked ferrules and X's in the sculpted rails, I'll try and post some photos. The reel seat is somewhat similar but has an elongated butt cap with several concentric circles. I don't know who made it. I have speculated to myself that it might have been Malleson (Frederick, not the other two).
Some old Malleson information can be found here:

http://annalsofflyfishing.proboards.com ... 3/malleson

[bambookill]

Yes please, I'd love to see some pics. Especially those little X's maybe we can figure out who made both rods.

[cwfly]

Quick in-the-kitchen photographs.

[bambookill]

I have another unknown rod that is similar to the rod you just posted. I've kinda had the feeling it was related to the A&I rod.
Interestingly, I have about 6 rods in my collection that are unmarked and they all have the same female ferrule welt. 3 are identical, and 2 more have a very very similar welt. So, five unmarked rods with practically the same welt. Is it possible to see a close up of the female ferrule of the rod you posted?

[2dabacking]

As mentioned, below are cuts from A&I catalogs and one from Chubb. The first two are from the 1884 A&I catalog. Highlighted are rods which match up with those in the Bartlett catalog shown above. The third image shows the "Best Eight Strip" rods from the 1889 A&I catalog. The final image comes from the 1890 Chubb catalog, wherein Chubb states that it is introducing its "New" grade eight-strip rod.

1884 A&I Catalog - Rod # 414, 421, and 421 1/2 matching description in Bartlett Catalog


1884 A&I Catalog - "Best" round joint rods similar to description in Bartlett Catalog


1889 A&I Catalog - "Best Eight Strip Rods" in Light, Medium, and Heavy


1890 Chubb Catalog - "NEW Eight-Strip" Rods