Antique Abbey & Imbrie

This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#21

Post by bambookill »

Joel that's some very compelling evidence! Those drawings and the connection to Bartlett have me really thinking. I wonder if we have any pics of Bartlett rods on here if I do a search?

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2dabacking
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#22

Post by 2dabacking »

Believe me, I am thinking, too. I don't know of any marked Bartlett rods? I wouldn't rule out Malleson or Landman just yet. They were also much closer to A&I (if geography was a factor back then?). I'll continue to dig over the weekend. Have a good weekend.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#23

Post by bambookill »

Ok some more evidence.
Searching for pics of Bartlett rods I noticed quite a few posts with rods that were unmarked. A few with the little x's, a few with sculpted rails, and a few with the female ferrules that had the same welt as I metioned earlier.

Then I started going through some books and read that Montague did not mark there rods until about the 1920's. Also, I read Bartlett bought out Chubb after the 3rd fire. Sculpted rails only seem to appear on rods by Chubb and the unknown rods we are discussing with a few exception ( those that used Chubb hardware) yet there are two styles of sculpted rails.

I have three makers I'm down to: Malleson, Bartlett, and Edward Vom Hofe. If only we had a marked example with the sculpted rail. We do have my rod witch has the sculpted rails with the x's that lead us to A&I.

My next question is were Bartlett and Malleson NY makers? We know Vom Hofe was.

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2dabacking
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#24

Post by 2dabacking »

Here is a link to an 1896 EvH catalog:

https://books.google.com/books?id=6ic9A ... &q&f=false

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#25

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, Wow! That's a nice link. Thanks 2dabacking......

Jay Edwards

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cwfly
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#26

Post by cwfly »

Abstract of Mass. incorporations. Notice the one at the bottom.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#27

Post by cwfly »

Female ferrules, as requested.

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#28

Post by bambookill »

Thanks guys for the Vom Hofe catalog and the close ups of the ferrules. Some thoughts on both:

My rod has double ring guides like in the Vom Hofe catalog.
I went back and counted the strips to make sure it was an 8 strip and not a 7 strip rod. However, I've read Vom Hofe did make 8 strip rods, but there were none in the catalog posted.

There are those ferrules I've seen!!! They all have a squared off welt with one incise line.
I've seen allot of ferrules that are similar on unmarked rods both on this forum, and in my own collection. They do vary a little as to where that "line" is. Sometimes it's closer to the top and other times more in the middle. The only marked rods, that I have seen, that have those ferrules are on Vom Hofe rods.

Finally, I don't think this can be solved unless we find a marked example of the sculpted rails that have those little x's on them. There is allot of compelling evidence for all three Malleson, Bartlett, Vom Hofe, and I don't think we can rule out other suggestions Chubb, maybe even Landman. I also had a suggestion that it could be Leonard. I wasn't sure of that because I had never heard of a Leonard 8 strip, but Leonard did make rods for Abbey and Imbrie for about 2 years.

This all gets mind boggling, because recently I've heard of a Leonard rod with "Krider" inscribed on it. A Leonard with an Empire City logo stamped on it. I personally have an early Bangor Leonard with "C.P. Warden" stamped on it. All have the Leonard stamp too. I'm still trying to find out who C.P. Warden is. Tackle dealer? Anyone know? Lol

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2dabacking
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#29

Post by 2dabacking »

Holy smokes, the scope is growing! (chuckle)

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cwfly
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#30

Post by cwfly »

2dabacking wrote:Holy smokes, the scope is growing! (chuckle)
That's why I feel calm just thinking the rod I depicted might as well be a Malleson.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#31

Post by jeffkn1 »

cwfly wrote:
2dabacking wrote:Holy smokes, the scope is growing! (chuckle)
That's why I feel calm just thinking the rod I depicted might as well be a Malleson.
I'm with you, Charlie. I think it's Malleson. Look at the ferrules in Chris's photo at the bottom of this page:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=88323&p=666355&hil ... ng#p666355

In addition, Jerry, Bob Moran and I were looking at an X-railed rod that Bob had brought to Tim for discussion, and the consensus was Malleson.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#32

Post by 2dabacking »

Just to avoid any undue confusion, my comment was directed at the narrowing of the scope to a few rod makers, and then reversing course to include more makers such as Leonard, Krider, Chubb and Landman - again. That’s just how this stuff goes sometimes. With these early rods, it happens all the time. I thought it was funny (and in a friendly way, not let’s run the guy off for having an opinion way).

With regard to Charlie’s rod, I don’t disagree that it originated in the Malleson shop. The ferrules certainly make for that argument, and the Spalding connection makes sense. I have the same Spalding rod shown in Jeff’s link.

Here are a couple of further examples showing what became known as the Malleson ferrule, both in the States and abroad. Malleson was quite the entrepreneur with a pretty far reach - as Charlie's linked thread above shows.

Charlie, as usual, your research is eye-opening and thorough. I don't recall ever reading about Fred's two brothers, and I don't know how you were able to keep track of which Malleson was where.

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Last edited by 2dabacking on 12/24/18 09:08, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#33

Post by 2dabacking »

To me, this seems more complicated than just looking at the ferrules. The reel seat seems to show up on various rods. In addition, there are more than a couple versions of the reel seat rails.

One marked example, as I mentioned above, is the Prichard Bros. rod, formerly owned by Tom Kerr and sold at the 2016 Crossroads' auction. This rod has the "x" marked rails, and it is marked "Prichard Bros. / Makers / 94 Fulton St. / N.Y."

Here is the link: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/44 ... ip-fly-rod

By the way, what do the ferrules on Bambookill's rod look like?

I have also always wondered: What is the purpose of those little "x" marks?

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#34

Post by bambookill »

Sorry guys I was doing the Christmas thing. Here are pics of the ferrules on the A&I rod I first posted. Unfortunately, the mid female ferrule is missing

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#35

Post by bambookill »

I'd also like to add that the male ferrules are capped at the bottom, but not with brass. It's nickel silver.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#36

Post by bambookill »

Joel, interesting!! I did not know that there was a Pritchard Brothers rod that had the little x's. I think after more posts on this, that my rod can now be narrowed down to Pritchard Brothers or Malleson. So as usual, I hit the books for more confirmation. Ok, Abbey and Imbirie NY., Right? Both Pritchards and Malleson were Brooklyn tackle makers. We know Pritchards did have a relationship with A&I. What threw me off was that the info I had read from the books pretty much all start with " Harry's rubber handle" but.... There is an example of a Pritchard Brothers rod that has those little x's and a seamed and soldered seat. Yet, the Malleson rods look so similar. Makes sense though because of where they were both located. Is it possible that rods we think are Malleson's are actually unmarked Pritchard Brothers. In addition, are the other rods, I have with the rubber handles, with no patent date, pre patent Pritchard rods? My last statement is probably a stretch, but if we have a marked example of a rod with those x's I don't think we can merit any other maker, but Pritchards, unless a second marked rod comes along. An Abbey and Imirie rod with those sure gives us some strong evidence. What do you guys think?

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#37

Post by cwfly »

Look carefully at the rails in post #34 in this link. I believe you will see "X"'s.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=40536&start=20

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#38

Post by bambookill »

Wow that rod and case is pretty damn similar to mine which is also marked Abbey & imbrie and best. Definitely made by the same maker. However, I read through the post, and Bruce said it was attributed to William Mitchell? That seems strange. That doesn't seem likely at this point, but maybe he has some knowledge we don't.

Does anyone know how I can post better pics than using that pic service? I'd post better pics if I could.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#39

Post by cwfly »

I do not think William Mitchell (the elder) made the rod. Bruce also indicated the rod was in an 1899 A & I catalog and since Mitchell died in August, 1894 it is unlikely he made it, assuming the rod in the photograph is indeed the same as the rod in the catalog. And I don't feel it looks like a Mitchell.

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Re: Antique Abbey & Imbrie

#40

Post by Old Creel »

I will add some thoughts here that may or may not help. I have a rod like the one posted as well as two more. The Pritchard that was mentioned and another A&I that has the "X" on the rails. I first was leaning toward Pritchard as the maker but then found a marked Malleson and looked at the ferrules. The other issue is the eight strip construction. Did Malleson make eight strip rods or did they use others?





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