This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!
I have been going through a collection of bamboo rods that I inherited and found one Marked "The Divine Rod". It is clearly a spiral rod and I am curious if it is possible to determine its age and value and whether it should restored or kept as is..
The rod is a 3/2, both tips are intact. Approximately 9'4". The guides are very primitive, each is just a simple ring that moves freely. There is no hook set. The guide wraps are a dark color, possibly green or black with red at each end. The mid wraps are red.
The rod is structurally in good shape. The handle has some alligatoring on the finish and has a few chips. The finish is quite dark and aged but otherwise in good shape.
Any information regarding this rod would be wonderful.
Hi Again,
Last night I spent a little time polishing up the reel seat and one of the ferrules. What a difference!
I have also posted quite a few more pictures that hopefully show additional detail.
Any info would be awesome.
I know it is hard to see the spiral in the pictures but it definitely does spiral. In the very first picture I put blue tape on one of the flats and you can see that the spiral is significant. In the butt section the twist is just under 180 degrees. Over the entire rod it makes 1 and half turns.
The Divine Spiral Rod was patented in 1892 and made until about 1902. There is some information about them in the book "Fishing Rods by Divine" by Michael Sinclair.
If it were mine, I would not restore this rod. It is a very unique piece of history and will lose it's character if it gets new wraps and varnish. Some minor repairs could be done to stabilize it, if necessary.
I don't know the value.
George
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Hi Guys, Very cool rod. I think the idea of 'you can't make new old friends' applies here. It looks like it's 'all there' and in good shape. TR's 'The ages have been at work on it, and man can only mar it' kinda pertains, although it's not billions year old geology. Ya can't put those original wraps back on once they're off.....
That one should be in the "Gnomes Traveling Rod Show" in exactly the shape it is in with just a wee bit of stabilization done to it.
But I am biased! That is a cool stick and it deserves to hang with its Brothers from that same time frame. Does it need a home where it can be seen by many anglers???
Thanks very much for posting the pictures and description. I have been interested in spiral rods for over 30 years, and have seen examples by Lambuth and other builders as well. However, I have never been able to see a Divine original before. There is also some information in Martin Keane's book, and one of the Herter's rod making manuals had a sketch of the jig that Divine used to put in the twist. I always assumed from that that he would have used a lot of twist. The fact that there are only 1 1/2 turns in a 9 foot 3 inch rod is enlightening. It very likely means that there was more to the jig than appears in the Herter's manual.
Anyway, I agree with the others, leave it in original condition.
I have to agree with keeping the rod original. It is a treasure considering not many have actually been seen let alone handled. Thank you so much for posting photos.
Mr. Smithwick, I'm glad you weighed into this discussion, considering you have probably forgotten more than I will ever know about rod building. I do have an article you wrote in the "Best Of The Planing Form." I was fascinated by the theory and process behind the twisted rod.
Does anyone know if Fred Divine used a jig or as suggested, may have secured the section at each end and introduced a twist?
Divine states in his patent application that the sections can be twisted through manipulation or through the assistance of machinery or an apparatus adapted for the purpose. The patent image seems to suggest that he may have introduced a twist of 2,1/6 turns over the length of a given section. I've read in the rod making link provided that he calculated twists between 1 & 1,1/2 turns per a given length.
Do we know how many of these rods Divine made?
So many questions, I have some reading to do.
Jeff,
Guide spacing is not covered in the book. There is some information about Lumbuth's experiments and that noted anglers Steve Raymond and Roderick Haig-Brown were fans of the spiral rods. Also, that "Fred's formula was for the rod to be completely turned between one and one-half (9 x 60 degrees) to two times (12 x 60 degrees) over its entire length. The number of twists was related to the length of the rod." (at page 90).
George
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The whole question of guide spacing on a spiral rod is certainly addressed by Lambuth's method of setting up a jig to hold the rod at every guide space interval. The method is pictured in Adamsdry's second link if you scroll down to it. Basically, you twist the section 1/6 turn between each guide. The sketch of Devine's device showed a device that consisted of a long bed with a chuck on both ends to hold each end of the section. You then just twisted the fat end of the section with the chuck, turning it by hand. That would result in most of the twist starting at the skinny end of the section, meaning that you would need a lot of twist to get the whole length to have some twist. Since the OP has told us that the rod only has 1 1/2 turns, it suggests that something else was going on in Divine's process. I would like to see the rod up close to try to figure out how Devine approached the guide spacing issue. The Devine device is not pictured in all of the Herter's manuals, BTW. The issue I have has a paragraph about the spiral rods, but not the illustration of the jig.
The two pages on spiral rod construction in Ray Goulds' "Tips & Tapers" gives a very detailed explanation of twisting the rod by setting the forms clamping bars to hold the twist at each guide position. The photo of the jig is pretty much self explanatory.
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Wow. Thanks for all the great responses and information.
I will certainly not restore this rod. I do like the idea that it should hang with its brothers.
Perhaps I will donate it to the American Museum of Fly Fishing, after I have had a little more time to enjoy it.
I live in the SF bay area (Berkeley). If anyone who is local would like to come see it in person, you would be welcome. Just reach out to me.
Dave,
Thank you sharing these pics and details. The spiral rod as mentioned earlier was only made a few years and yours is only the 2nd I have seen. As many of our knowledgabl members have stated, only touch what you need to in order to preserve the rod and prevent further deterioration. May I humbly suggest the Gnome's Traveling rod museum or the Catskill Fly Fishing museum as a possible host of this unique and wondrous rod? It has a much better chance being seen and shared with the public at these venues versus the American Flu Fishing Museum.
I am Honored by your recommendation and I would come up with the money to purchase that rod if possible to prevent it from being tucked away in the AMFF archive where few would see it and to research it you would have to pay to see it. The GTRS is open to anyone who wants to do research and is willing to travel to Paonia. Besides the fact that the collection travels regularly and it is seen by many every year. Trying to work up a west coast run when we get the world back to some semblance of normal. That is the part of the Country the GTRS has not visited yet and it does need to do the west coast run.
Cheers
Jeff
definitely throwing my hat in the ring for consideration if the rod comes up for sale.
2000K + rods tucked away there (The AMFF) and they do not display but a small fraction whereas the "GTRS" displays the entire collection (almost 200 fully storyboarded rods covering 200+ years of history of the rod) when it is out for viewing and it is the only traveling museum dedicated to the rod in the US, Go Whiteadder overseas!!! Andy is doing something similar in Scotland and my pointy red hat is off to him!! That Divine should be hanging out with the other three rods made by Fred in the "GTRS" IMHO
I wish it was here now so it could be included in the HD documentary!!
