help with valuation old Bamboo rod

[J Whitelaw]

Split bamboo rod 106 " long, very light and sturdy, old but in great condition for its age ,

[samsonboi]

Value is almost nothing or less.

[kilgore]

Because sections are all different lengths, the grip is filthy and the rod has 6 guides when it should have 9 or 10. Also, to you and all 'newbies' (I was one not too many years ago), please learn something about older rods in general and don't say things like "it's in great condition for its age". You don't know its age and it's far from being in 'great condition." Read a bunch of posts where information is asked for and what the very knowledgeable folks here have to say about a rod.

[wrong66]

Value is almost nothing or less.

"Or less"?. Do you think that's funny?

[samsonboi]

...
yes, I happen to think so. But it is true. Looks like a run down occupied Japan rod and not even with its box or spare tip. If it had a spare tip.

[wrong66]

Yeah, you're a real funny guy. It was made by Montague, right here in the U.S.A. The hardware alone has value. By the way, the value of most of your posts are basically nothing...or less. I'm afraid you suffer from the Ed Ponder Syndrome. Those of us who have been here awhile know what I'm talking about.

[Webfly]

Hey Mark, I’m going to ask for one pass for Samsonboi. He’s a young kid and hopefully he learned something from this post. He probably ought to spend more time studying and learning from this forum, rather than posting comments like this.

[wrong66]

You got it and I agree. The comment was extremely rude, if nothing else. But I'm thinking this "young kid" thing is a charade. Just my opinion, of course.

[Webfly]

Well, you're a seasoned man, and I'm sure that you can see inexperience and young comments in his post. Give him some credit for having an interest in this subject instead of playing videos and instagramming, like most his age.

Samsonboi, it would be wise to heed this advise, we've seen people get banned for less.

[wrong66]

I'm with you, Webfly. Thanks for your comments.
Mark

[6tUc05]

AMEN webfly. He needs to get a much better foundation to work from than what he currently has. EXPERIENCE should help tremendously in shoring up his foundation. Reading can be a major portion of gaining experience! But, it does not replace "hands-on" experience, which he is not old enough to have much of.

Yes, he IS to be commended for his enthusiasm for things "bamboo" rather than twiddling his fingers on a video games remote or instagramming. Albert Einstein once said that the only source of knowledge is experience!

[samsonboi]

Well, you're a seasoned man, and I'm sure that you can see inexperience and young comments in his post. Give him some credit for having an interest in this subject instead of playing videos and instagramming, like most his age.

Samsonboi, it would be wise to heed this advise, we've seen people get banned for less.

Thank you Webfly, this is good advice.

Wrong66, ask Lowell Davis or Gordon Koppin after this week (Gordon’s visiting Monday or Tuesday and I did VRG w Lowell) how old I am.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, All the above. This is perhaps the most contentious section on the forum, I think. This is defining the history of 'what it is and what it ain't.' We should be careful and respectful.

Jay Edwards

[tunafart]

Concur.
Perhaps we can salvage something here from the discussion and OP pictures:
Are we looking at an admittedly low-end and well-worn Montague blue-collar rod
showing a wood grip foundation that was originally fitted with sheet cork, or maybe . . . rattan???
In other words, showing-its-bones? I've never seen one stripped down, but I imagine it might look like this.

IMHO, this sub-forum is our best niche for developing forensic rod evaluation skills and early manufacturing technique knowledge.
Best place on-line for this education. Just my two cents.
paul
charleston sc

[snorider]

Yes opinions are the real problem here IMO. People want to know the history and value of their rod, not the personal opinion of people with nothing better to do. I think one could add a cord or rattan grip covering and it would be a nice looking rod, the "splitswich" style ferrule at the grip is actually an interesting feature. SB, the value of even a japanese rod is @ 25-50$ as a decorative item. A lot of old rods sell at antique shops and are displayed on peoples walls. I always take a peak at the rods in peoples cabins hoping to find a 7' payne rod hanging above the couch. No luck yet...

[wrong66]

"Yes opinions are the real problem here IMO". What? Did I just read that?

[6tUc05]

It has been said that "opinions" are like anal sphincters; everyone has one, AND, they all STINK!

[Dave in Maine]

To the OP:
It's a production-line Montague from the first half of the 20th century, probably closer to the 20s-30s. So, it is somewhere close to 100 years old. The pictures are not that detailed, so it's pretty hard to determine whether the guides have been replaced, re-set, and/or re-wrapped. In any event it is probably not original.

I say Montague because, from what I can see in the pictures (not the best), it appears to have Montague hardware.

The grip, I'm of the opinion it does NOT appear to be one that would have had sheet cork or composite cork applied. The reasoning behind my opinion is this: all the sheet cork grips I have encountered have actually been cork fragments glued and pressed in a mould to shape, with a straight cylinder as the hole in the middle. The wood under-grip shown on this rod is not a straight cylinder but rather is shaped. So, a pre-formed "sheet cork" grip with a straight cylinder for the central hole could not be slid into place over a shaped undergrip like this rod has. Similarly, any pre-formed "sheet cork" grip which had a shaped central hole would have been torn apart trying to fit it over the teardrop shape of the under-grip.

So, I conclude either rattan or some form of rubber wrapping for the grip. A feature - not shown one way or the other in the pictures - that would be diagnostic for a wrapped grip (most likely rattan) would be if there was a hole drilled into the rod body, most likely under the grip end of the reel seat. Such a hole would be under (likely well under) 1/4 inch in diameter. It would be there to accept the stub end of the rattan wrap. That would be the method used, rather than some more elaborate way of ending off the rattan, because it would be a lot cheaper and faster. Rods like this were made to hit a price point and any excess labor would be unprofitable.

Further pointing toward this being an inexpensive rod made to a price point are the ferrules. In the pictures it appears the females have no welt, i.e., rim at the open end. Those were used only on the cheapest rods.

As was implied in a couple of the posts upthread, the rod, as it is, doesn't have much value. As a wall-hanger, a fair asking price would probably be in the $25-$30 range at retail.

As one or two of the posters upthread noted, some or all of the hardware might be salable.

Or, you could re-set the ferrules (the glue has almost certainly dried to powder and they'll be loose) or simply replace them (you can get new, cheap, functional nickel-plated brass ferrules for under $10 a set and they won't detract at all from the rod's value), re-calibrate how many guides this rod needs to function acceptably and how they should be spaced then reset and wrap the guides, and put a new, grip on it. As to a new grip, rattan would be the way to go. Use 2 strands of rattan (match the color well) so you don't come up short, soak it first, wrap it wet and let it dry, before gluing into place. Without running a search, I am nonetheless sure there are good instructions on this site on how to do a rattan grip. Rehabilitating this rod is a good project for next January-February to keep you out from underfoot around the house. And you'd learn a lot about bamboo rods by doing the project. It won't be worth much but with more guides it likely will fish well. As fishing instruments most of these old, cheap rods suffered more from too-few guides than from any other cause.

As to the commenters who got into their own little contest, please knock it off. We're better than that.

[samsonboi]

I had a Monty with that dowel shape. It had sheet cork over it. It was a sheet of amalgamated cork which had been wrapped around the teardrop shaped dowel and glued in place. I took it apart to determine this.

[Dave in Maine]

If you can find the seam in the cork, then that would be diagnostic of sheet cork, shaped over the teardrop. If there's no seam it would be a pre-shaped grip. Where, as here, no cork at all, could be either sheet cork or rattan. Pretty hard to get sheet cork these days and a lot of work to get it to shape, so I'd go with rattan for a restoration/rehabilitation.