Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!

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fmode
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Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#1

Post by fmode »

Hi all, I would love some help narrowing down this fly fishing rod. It is meticulously crafted and unused. Came from my father-in-law's collection of fly fishing equipment (Orvis rods, and such). He had lots of unused items, and a dazzling book collection on fly fishing.

This rod measures 7' 6" and by my successive weight measures, at a svelte 3.8 oz. It has a tip, of course, and only two guides (a snake at the middle). I am a guitar maker and do vintage restoration, so have an eye for detail. This rod seems meticulously assembled and finished. Yet oddly to me, it is unmarked.

Thank you for any insights you might provide!


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barebo
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#2

Post by barebo »

It looks to my untrained eye to have all of the hallmarks of an Orvis kit rod that was well done by a very competent individual.

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#3

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I agree, an Orvis kit rod, or one that has been refinished. If this is a 7 1/2' rod, it should have 7 - 8 guides. If you added guides or had someone do this foy you, it would make a fine fishing rod.

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#4

Post by fmode »

Thanks all, for the insights!

Salar4me
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#5

Post by Salar4me »

I have many unfinished projects ...The wraps don’t look varnished. Agree on the Orvis blank, reel seat, even the bag. Just wondering if the other components are somewhere in his fishing supplies? If not, no problem including the rod wrapping thread - 531 brown?

6tUc05
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#6

Post by 6tUc05 »

If you make guitars, you surely have the requisite skills necessary to add the appropriate guides and to varnish the thread wraps, yielding a very nice fishing rod! Salar4me provided a thread color code but did not identify the Brand or suggest a thread size or type. Brand is critical as each thread maker had their own color code. Silk is definitely preferred, and Size A would work great!

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#7

Post by fmode »

Salar4me wrote:
03/29/21 07:33
I have many unfinished projects ...The wraps don’t look varnished. Agree on the Orvis blank, reel seat, even the bag. Just wondering if the other components are somewhere in his fishing supplies? If not, no problem including the rod wrapping thread - 531 brown?
Thank you. Actually I have a reasonably large supply of fly fishing fishing materials that are here. Let me go through and see if I can find the matching items. If I do I'll ask for some pointers. I would actually like to finish this for my youngest son. Thanks to everyone!

jeffkn1
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#8

Post by jeffkn1 »

Salar4me wrote:
03/29/21 07:33
531 brown?
Close. It's 541 medium brown..

Salar4me
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#9

Post by Salar4me »

Yup - me bad - would suggest rewrapping all guides with a new spool since there aren’t many done. Would be easier than finding a match...
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fisherman911
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#10

Post by fisherman911 »

Not to make too fine a point of it but the origional "541" was Gudebrod Nylon size A. Gudebrod stopped operations around 15 years ago but this thread is readerly available on line. In my experience Orvis mainly used Nylon thread , with exceptions , from the middle 40's until the early 70's. During this time frame they used straight varnish with no color preserver. I am quite sure that combination would be correct for a "Kit Rod" of this time frame.

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#11

Post by fmode »

Thanks for the feedback. I went digging in all the fly fishing stuff and here is what I found. There is a variety of threads for obvious reasons, but these two seem closest. Honestly the one on the right seems spot on. Any further guidance based on these photos? Thank you!


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6tUc05
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#12

Post by 6tUc05 »

One good way to tell how close they are is to moisten a small spot on the spool and a comparable spot on the base wrap on the rod and then compare them. A single thread laid over a wrap can be very misleading. You can moisten by sticking the end of a finger to your tongue and then to the thread. Repeat as necessary.

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#13

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I'd say the one on the right is a good match to that on what appears to be an unfinished and likely unfitted kit rod. Is there a number on the silk on the right? I personally have not had good results with Gudebrod 541 - too dark when finished with no typical Orvis transparency. Your spools of Belding look lighter. Also, contrary to Fisherman511, most Orvis bamboo rods used silk. In fact even the Special rods used silk at least early on. I have a 1946 that had (what certainly seemed original to me) silk on the hook keeper and stripper, but nylon on the other guides from a later rework at Orvis.

OP, your son will be quite proud to own this bit of family history with two generations of effort!

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#14

Post by fmode »

The spool on the right is a dead ringer for the wrap. Those threads were also in a separate bag with the rod hardware, so I'm pretty sure we have the answer. Yes I agree, and while my son is a fishing nut that has not seen the fly fishing light yet, I suspect he will, so have this stuff set aside for him will be cool.

Ok ... I'm assuming I can sort out the basics via Youtube. As far as locating the guides - is that generic layout or is there something specific about how one of these rods would have them laid out (someone mentioned 7 or 8 guides). Thanks again!

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#15

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I've sold my 2-piece 7 1/2' Orvis. They are quite popular, so perhaps someone on here will post the usual guide spacing.

bluesjay
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#16

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, My Gosh! Is the spool on the right Belding Corticelli 5115?

Jay Edwards

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#17

Post by fmode »

bluesjay wrote:
03/31/21 19:55
Hi Guys, My Gosh! Is the spool on the right Belding Corticelli 5115?
I'm missing something?

Any layout help on the guides would be great.

If I had to guess this rod started out 40 years back, maybe, at Yellow Breeches Fly Fishing Shop out of Boiling Springs.

bluesjay
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#18

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, What is the number on the spool? It looks like 5115, but....

Jay Edwards

fmode
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#19

Post by fmode »

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bluesjay
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Re: Unmarked superb rod - what is it?

#20

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, Well rats, the 5115 was the Payne color.

Jay Edwards

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