Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!

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driftless angler
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Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#1

Post by driftless angler »

I just picked up this rod last night. I searched the forum and google for the M/29 model and came up empty. With the 7' size, black wraps, black plastic reel seat, one tip (original bag only had space for one), and inscription style, I am thinking HI Pocono clone for Wards?

Someone had installed a ridiculous sized stripping guide and heavy duty tip top, so maybe they made it into a spinning rod at some point. The tip section only reaches the bottom of the ferrule on the butt section, leading me to believe 1.5" was broken off the tip, but when put together, the rod measures exactly 7'. Is this how the Prince/Pocono were configured?

It had electrical tape covering the top of the cork and upon removal, it looked like someone had been sticking quite a few hooks in it over the years. Also a screw was inserted into the reel seat, I assume it was loose. Despite this, the vanish is good, the blank straight, and the ferrules separate with a nice pop, with no clicking. In the remaining light, I strung it up with a 5DT in the backyard and it is a good caster, might be even better with a 4 wt line. Should be a nice little rod after I replace the grip, stripping guide, and tip top.

My only other bamboo rod is a HI Tonka Queen. This "new" rod has quite a bit thicker tip than the Queen, but without the swelled butt of the Queen, it feels softer and more progressive.

Thanks for looking and for any help you can provide!

Some photos:


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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#2

Post by wrong66 »

Looks like a Horrocks-Ibbotson for Wards all right. Do the rod shaft inscriptions read toward the grip? I'm sure they do, but needed to ask.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#3

Post by driftless angler »

Yes, they do read toward the grip.

One other question: does the Prince/Pocono have a thicker tip than the Queen?

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#4

Post by wrong66 »

Horrocks-Ibbotson it is. Don't know about tip thickness.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#5

Post by driftless angler »

Thanks for the feedback Wrong66! I appreciate it.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#6

Post by driftless angler »

Looking at the wraps more closely, I would say they are a dark purple.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#7

Post by EastslopesTH »

driftless angler wrote:
03/30/21 08:55
One other question: does the Prince/Pocono have a thicker tip than the Queen?
Yes some Prince and Pocono have slightly thicker tips than other Prince, Princess and Queen rods.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#8

Post by driftless angler »

Thanks Eastslope!

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#9

Post by EastslopesTH »

I'm surprised the Wards Sportking M/29 is also a 7' rod as the two Sportking M/71's I had were also Prince/Pocono trade rods (see this old post: viewtopic.php?p=599846#p599846).

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#10

Post by driftless angler »

Eastslopes, I had seen your post when trying to find info on the M/29. Like I said, I can't find anything about a M/29 on this site or google. It seems to be outfitted the same, using same color scheme as the M/71. They look to be identical - so why two different #s?

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#11

Post by EastslopesTH »

Yours is the second M/29 that I have seen, but the other one did not have the well-preserved labeled tube indicating the rod's length. I assumed the other M/29 I saw was simply a shortened Tonka Queen or a Princess that did come in 7' (in addition to it's more common 7 1/2' length). Your rod is proof that the rod was made as a legitimate 7' rod. So it is very interesting that HI would make 2 Prince/Pocono trade rods for the same retailer in the same length - seems redundant to me. If your tips are stout, maybe it was a Princess trade rod??
FYI: The 4 or so Pocono and handful of Prince rods I've owned/restored all had the dark purple wraps with black reel seat like your M/29. The only trade rod that differed from this was the Abbey and Imbrie Brook Trout that came with cherry red wraps and either the black or a bright red reel seat spacer.

Ron

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#12

Post by driftless angler »

Well, Ron if you have any of the Prince/Pocono rods around or know of their tip diameter we could compare. All the ones you had, have had equal length sections? Like I said in the first post, the tip is 1.5 inch short than the butt, but it is exactly 7' when put together. Most likely a broken tip, I'm sure. BTW, can I ask what thread you used to match the original wraps? Thanks!

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#13

Post by EastslopesTH »

Almost all the ones I had were legit full length 7' rods. One or two were short but at the ferrule end, not tip end, due to ferrule resets. I only have one Prince left (a two tip version with original rod sock but no tube). I could measure this if you wish.
So for threads, I have found that some Prince and Poconos used a dark blue silk instead of purple. For these, my notes show I used YLI 50wt #20 dark blue and used shellac sealer as color preserver, which darkens the silk quite a bit. Then I used spar varnish as usual. IF you want the purple wraps, a dark purple like YLI 100wt in #233 "Amethyst Purple" color preserved with a CP that darkens slightly (e.g. shellac sealer, Mike's Colorguard CP or waterbased urethane such as Varathane Diamond Interior waterbased diluted 50/50 with water) will match. Note that YLI 100wt in #233 color preserved with Al's Color Rite CP will be a bit too purple (i.e. not dark enough). I hope this helps.
What confuses me is why your rod has a short tip but still measures 7' when put together.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#14

Post by driftless angler »

Thanks for the thread colors Eastslopes, I appreciate it. I did measure the tip and it was 2.2 mm.

BTW is removing the reel seat on these HI rods a b#*tch?

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#15

Post by EastslopesTH »

I will measure the only Prince I have left and get back to you. As for the reel seat, I only had to remove one in the past as that was on an Abbey and Imbrie Brook trout model. You need to carefully remove the small nail that pins through the butt cap into the seat spacer then apply a bit of heat with a heat gun on low. Don't over heat to the point that you can't touch it. It's best to go through several cycles of low heat and cooling to break the old glue bond rather than extreme heat that could damage the spacer.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#16

Post by Shrimpman »

Having recently removed the reel seats from a Tonka Prince and Tonka Queen, I can attest that the process was a b*tch. Whatever the shiny, black adhesive is, it is the most pernicious adnesive I have dealt with. For all of the shortcomings of the the H-I hardware, they got the adhesive thing down. :D For me, it was a tedious affair with a Dremel cutting disc and prying with a knife. Shall I provide a photographic memoir of what a Buck knife does to a hand when a damned fool pries an H-I reel seat off? Several stitches later... :lol

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#17

Post by EastslopesTH »

Yes the black tar-like adhesive can be tough to deal with, but like I said cycles of heat/cold will break it down. I've never had to whittle the seat down with a knife to get the seat off. It sort of reminds me of removing Granger ferrules where again, cycles of hot and cold and plenty of patience seem to do the trick without damaging anything.

Driftless, I did measure the 2 Prince tips immediately below the tip top trim wrap and one top averaged 0.089" (2.3mm) and the other was 0.095" (2.4mm).

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#18

Post by driftless angler »

Shrimpman, I'm good without the photo! I will keep knives away from the tackle bench, lest I be tempted. Actually it is the cork grip that needs to be replaced and from your descriptions, since I am going to remove the ridiculous stripping guide, I should just remove the other guide on the butt section and replace the grip from the top down. Eastslopes thanks for the advice and measuring the tips. Again, more evidence that the M/29 is a Prince/Pocono. Why they had both M/71 and M/29, I guess we might never know.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#19

Post by driftless angler »

Alright, I'm beating a dead horse, I promise I'll stop after this. My M/29 is heavily flamed. Is the M/71 not flamed? Could that be the difference in model numbers?

I had the rod in the backyard again last night and tried out some more lines. It will cast a WF4 to a DT5 very nicely. I liked a DT4 best. It is going to be a nice small stream rod for sure.

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Re: Sport King M/29 - Who made it and other questions

#20

Post by EastslopesTH »

Good point. The 2 tip Tonka Prince I have is heavily flamed while the M/71's and A&I Brook Trout were not. I have seen Tonka Queen trade versions and they were generally lighter in color than the HI versions. I'm just not sure Montgomery Ward would specify a new model number based solely on flamed cane vs. not. I also see the M/29 came with a rod tube. I'm not sure the M/71 ever had a tube. Mine didn't and I've never seen a tube for them. The thing that I wonder about is the M/71 is a 2 piece rod with equal-length butt and tip sections, while your rod does not (yet is still 7' and even shown that way on the tube label).

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