Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

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bambookill
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Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#1

Post by bambookill »

Ok, so I know I shouldn’t buy these unknown rods, but sometimes it is just an itch I have to scratch. So, I picked this up on “the Bay” the other day. I immediately recognized it was “sporterized” to sin city and and back, but I bought it anyway. I couldn’t resist the wedding band in the reel seat. Now on the bay it looked like a club, but it’s actually a rather small rod. I posted a pic with a dime on top the reel seat. It has a seamed sheet cork grip. Also a swelled butt section, but NOT mortised. The hardware is solid NS and it has a cherry wood “ color” reel seat. It reminds me of a Chubb lancewood rod I have: Same color. The reel seat is up locking sliding band. The groove you see is where a reel foot dug into the wood. The groove actually goes back to the wedding band if you look closely. My guesses. Early, early Orvis (rounded butt cap maybe, sheet cork grip?) , or Divine,( also rounded butt cap, cherry spacer?) maybe Chubb. Anyone know who, have a similar rod, or a good guess?



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uniquafly
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#2

Post by uniquafly »

Cool rod!

I’m pretty sure it’s not a Divine. I could be wrong but I don’t believe Fred Divine ever used sheet cork grips. I would rule out Orvis as well. I would expect to see the Orvis trademark stamping on the reel seat and numbered rod sections if it were Orvis. I would lean towards saying it is an early Montague, Chubb or possibly an obscure contemporary of the previously mentioned manufacturers.

Do you have only the butt section?

Interesting rod! I’m anxious to hear what everyone else has to say.
“He told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman.”

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#3

Post by bambookill »

Uniquafly, agree it’s most likely not a Devine. I have a Fred Divine rattan grip with the F.D. Divine Maker Utica N.Y. (Stamped on one line) into a NS reel seat which is 1885-1888 according to Sinclair’s book, and I also agree I’ve never seen a sheet cork grip on an early Divine. My next early Divine has has a solid cork grip. Which has an 1880-1900 stamp on it.
So...with that said, I can’t rule out Orvis just quite yet on my end, because I have 5 early Orvis rods. 3 with the spring steel 1884 reel seat and two that have the solid wood insert with the little wires. I do agree that this rod would have to predate those rods. I’ve seen some earlier Orvis rods than mine in pics. I think Royce S. has a couple.
Lastly, yes I have the tip and mid, but... the whole rod looks like it was restored 5 times, other than the butt section. I left those parts out as not to confuse the issue. So yeah, I’m curious to see what everyone thinks as well. 😊 but yeah... I agree I think we can rule out Divine. Let’s keep Orvis in there for now to see... I wonder how many early makers used the wedding band just above the butt cap on 6 strip bamboo? I would think it wouldn’t be many? Any thoughts on that? It’s definitely not Murphy, but I have a drawing of a John Krider with the little wedding band on what appears to be a wood real seat, about the same spacing, and an uplocking sliding band, that’s in Schwiebert’s book on page 37. However, sheet cork doesn’t seem likely for it, unless someone changed it. It’s kind of weird that the seam in the sheet cork has very obvious line in it, and it’s not very straight. If only another example would show up 😊

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roycestearns
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#4

Post by roycestearns »

Unlikely a sporterized CF Orvis rod. The CF Orvis rod shop used multiple strips of sheet cork for the grip, the butt cap and the swell at the grip are not CFO like.

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#5

Post by bambookill »

Royce, yeah my antique Orvis rods have several strips of sheet cork and appear much thicker than sheet cork on later trade rods. Ok, so maybe now we can rule out Orvis. I do think it’s possible the sheet cork on this rod was added later. I was going to stick a very small pin into the sheet cork to see how deep it is. Might be a clue.

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roycestearns
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#6

Post by roycestearns »

I think if you're on to something if you chase the butt cap, reel seat and wedding band and the large swell at the grip. The butt cap looks odd for the rest of the reel seat, not really chubb like either. Any markings at the end of the butt cap?

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#7

Post by bambookill »

I just checked the depth of the sheet cork and it’s about .065, so about a 1/16” ... I can literally see the cane through the pits in the cork with a strong light shining on it. I added a pic of the sheet cork line which is pretty crooked. I wonder if it’s possible if this had cord or rattan wrapped over it? I’ve seen a “fine “ cord wrapped over thin cork on a Chubb.
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#8

Post by bambookill »

Royce, no markings anywhere. All the parts are pinned to the seat with NS wire. The wedding band has 4 pins in it. The butt cap has one pin. The lower grip check has two pins, and the winding check has one pin.

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#9

Post by bambookill »

Royce, the butt cap has the same little chamfer on it as the wedding band, which is identical. I could be wrong but the butt cap appears original to the rod in my opinion.
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#10

Post by bambookill »

Could this be a Trowbridge? Here are some comparison pics to the one in Steve Woit’s book of Jeff Hatton’s Trowbridge.
Similarities include. Red’ish spacer, machine marks diagonal in same direction and size, rounded butt cap, up locking sliding band, relatively close machine lines, chamfer on butt cap, hardware facing same direction ( knurl to knurl wise and pin in same spot between the two butt cap lines. See pics and see what you think?

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uniquafly
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#11

Post by uniquafly »

You may be on to something.
It will not necessarily indicate a builder but does the cork have any impressions that might indicate it once may have had a rattan grip? Definitely a head scratcher.
“He told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman.”

Norman Maclean

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#12

Post by jeffkn1 »

bambookill wrote:
04/06/21 00:36
Could this be a Trowbridge?
I'm inclined to think Trowbridge had nothing to do with the subject rod. As far as I know, Trowbridge was not a maker, but rather a seller of trade goods. If it doesn't have their marking odds are it wasn't made for them.
Trowbridge rods are also quite uncommon. I've seen only three in the last 15 years and I live 2 hours from where they were sold.
And, as a matter of coincidence, Gnome bought his Trowbridge from me. It was the only one I have had an opportunity to acquire in my travels.
I think the subject rod came from Chubb, c1880-1900.

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#13

Post by bambookill »

Uniquafly, not that I can see.

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#14

Post by bambookill »

Hi Jeff, yeah sorry I didn’t mean to imply the rod was made by Trowbridge, but rather sold by Trowbridge. I read that Trowbridge just sold the rods, as well, and that they might be made by Chubb. Did you look at the pics I posted comparing the reel seat components? Maybe it’s just me , but that seems like a damn close match. So, do you think it’s a Chubb based on the similarity to the Trowbridge parts? Or what’s the basis for the Chubb? And... does it connect to the Trowbridge in any way, in your opinion? Other than not being marked as Trowbridge. Just searching. I don’t stop until I find an answer. Lol 😂 part of the fun. 😊

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#15

Post by roycestearns »

For all the parts sold by Chubb there have to be a lot of these floating around, unmarked Chubb builds by amateur makers / fisherman. The petite butt cap (for the time) is what throws me off the Chubb trail, but I'm probably wrong. There are several Chubb rods in J Hattons Rod Crafting that have similarities!

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#16

Post by bambookill »

Jeff, sorry that was probably confusing on my part...haha. I will try to clarify. So what I’m asking is.. did Chubb make rods for Trowbridge that we can confirm? Also, if there is no connection, would my rod be a very early Chubb based on that wedding band? I’m not going to buy anymore unmarked rods lol 😂 Ever! Tomorrow... what’s the bid? 😂

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#17

Post by bambookill »

Royce, yeah it has many similarities to the Chubb rods in my collection. However, at the same time seems very different. I have never seen anything like it in my 28 years of collecting rods. Not in person or in a book, and I dig through the books like a madman 😂

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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#18

Post by cwfly »

Even more names from the past can be found in this interesting thread:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=127544&hilit=goodridge

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bambookill
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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#19

Post by bambookill »

Cwfly, agree that Chubb definitely throws a wrench into the mix. However, and I hope nobody gets upset at what I’m about to say, but I sometimes think we tend to put a anything we can’t immediately identify into the “Chubb file,” without digging into the details a tad bit closer. I could wrong but let’s see... I’m going to post a pic of a marked early rod. Everyone look it over, and see if you can guess who made the rod based on the reel seat? This might be fun. Give it a try... is it a Chubb? It might be, and it might not be? Just for fun, let’s see some guesses. 😊



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Re: Antique Orvis, Devine, or Chubb? Wedding band

#20

Post by 2dabacking »

bambookill wrote:
04/06/21 11:33
Cwfly, agree that Chubb definitely throws a wrench into the mix. However, and I hope nobody gets upset at what I’m about to say, but I sometimes think we tend to put a anything we can’t immediately identify into the “Chubb file,” without digging into the details a tad bit closer. I could wrong but let’s see... I’m going to post a pic of a marked early rod. Everyone look it over, and see if you can guess who made the rod based on the reel seat? This might be fun. Give it a try... is it a Chubb? It might be, and it might not be? Just for fun, let’s see some guesses. 😊



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Based only on the reel seat, my first reply would be Divine, followed by Horrocks, followed by Chubb.

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