bamboo rod ID

[solo8232000]

I bought an old diamond wrap bamboo rod a couple of years ago on eBay. It had apparently been hanging around the site for a while..likely because the guy wanted a ton of money for it..We dickered a little and were able to come to a mutally agreeable price...I have been trying to get an ID on the rod, but so far no louck..The rod has two tips which after lawn casting I am sure one is a 4wt and the other a 5wt..I think this rod is a dry fly rod just because of how it handles ..very light medium action..smooth as silk. I used reels with 4wt Cortland Sylk and 5wt Cortland Sylk line when I lawn cast it.. The only writing I have found on the rod is a name and date A C Evans 1924 on the butt cap of the rod..any ideas??
I would greatly appreciate your feed back....Many Thanks!!

[TheMontyMan]

Solo,

Two potential makers come to mind for me - Winchester and Union Hardware.

The ferrules have a distinctive Union Hardware look to them, based on the style and placement of the incisions near the base. I am not familiar with Winchester ferrule styling, so maybe they fit their styling as well.

The winding check appears to be a style found on many Winchester rods I've seen.

I haven't seen many Union Hardware or Winchester rods with cedar reel seats

The diamond winding looks very consistent, leading me to believe it was factory applied, not a custom, hand wound effort.

A close-up of the tip tube cap may help in the ID as well.

I haven't seen many Union Hardware or Winchester rods with cedar reel seats. An example of either maker's rod with a similar reel seat could solve the mystery.

. . . Rex
The Monty Man

[solo8232000]

Thank you, Rex..I had no idea when I bought it as to its origin, manufacturer, etc..Likely I paid way too much for it but I do belive it will make a wonderful fishing rod and something that will be a wonderful heirloom to pass on to a deserving young flyfisher!!!..What I do like about the rod is that it has both 4wt and 5wt tips and casts like syrup..smooth and even..shoots line so easily..I have never fished it..but can't wait to do so..I sent it to C. Bogart to clean up some cosmetics..I just love these old rods!!!

[solo8232000]

Hi Rex,

I inserted a close-up of the side of rod tip tube cap ( I don't have and end on view)..there are a bunch more photos at photo bucket of this rod. I realize some of the images I inserted left a lot to be desired...but they are the images I have right now.

[shoaliedude]

William Wheeler? Totally guessing based on the diamond pattern wrap. But his patent was for metallic wrap. Wasn't there a Connecticut maker who did diamond silk wraps?

And "No." I don't think you paid too much for it - especially if it casts. It is certainly gorgeous, and the consistent wrap pattern is - to me - and art form. You bought it for a price that suited you, and you have something that appears to be rather unique. Heck, the mystery alone would add value to me personally.

What are the black "nodes" near the ferrules? Witness marks? Thumb grips for pulling the sections apart?

[solo8232000]

Thank you for your comments..regarding the black nodes near the ferrules, I have no idea..I sent the rod to C. Bogart to get a couple of "bad" wraps cleaned up..As you can see in the photos, one wrap was redone but it was done very poorly and the color of the thread was off quite a bit..Another wrap has deteriorated to the point that it also needs to be redone..Otherwise the rod is in very good condition..The rod tip tube cap threads are a bit worn and will not tighten although the cap fits and will not fall off. I bought this rod mostly because I had not seen anything like it (though admittedly I had only recently been seduced by bamboo fly rod lust)..As I stated in an earlier post, this rod is likely one that I will pass along in time to a deserving neophite nephew or neice...can't imagine selling it for just money!!!

[TheMontyMan]

I'm leaning towards Winchester as being the maker of your rod.

I searched The Forum and found a couple of good examples of Winchester rods and tip tubes that match many of the characteristics of this rod and its tip tube. Here's one of those postings:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=78801&p=617731&hil ... be#p617731

As you can see, the winding check and ferrules on those rods are very similar to yours as well. Either Winchester had a ferrule style very similar to Union Hardware's style, or they may have bought ferrules from Union Hardware to use on their rods. I don't have any proof either way. I know that UH offered their ferrules wholesale to other makers, but I don't who actually bought and used them.

Several makers produced diamond wrapped rods. I seem to remember a posting a few months back of an H-I diamond wrapped rod, and someone found (and posted) the catalog listing for it. Last summer I appraised a Montague collection that contained a matching set (fly rod and matching bait rod) which were diamond wrapped, though the wrap styling was very different than this.

. . . Rex
The Monty Man

[headwaters]

Nice find, solo, as well as a nice mystery to solve!

Rupert

[solo8232000]

Thanks, Rex..I agree those characteristics sure do look like double fist cousins if not brothers and sisters!!! In many ways your help sure does make the rod even better for me...Now if I can just catch a nice trout or two or ten with it!!!.. Look out Broken Bow here I come!!!

Thank you, Rupert..I am just captivated by these older rods..The fact that they still fishable after all these years is a real testament to their quality as well as the care taken with them by their previous owners!!

[Broken Rod]

A nice old rod. I agree with Rex that the tip case is a Winchester. Recently bought one for 9-footer tips (actually hoping it was a Thomas tip case).

[rmnp]

Solo...

Here's a partial page from a 1933 Horrocks-Ibbotson catalog showing a fly rod for sale with a similar silk winding HI called Interlock Silk Binding. HI bought Winchester's rod division in 1932. It is possible your fly rod was made by HI with Winchester parts after this acquisition.

Sweet fly rod. Enjoy it.

The best to you,

Kev

[solo8232000]

I think this particular rod was made about 8 years before HI bought the Winchester rods...The particular rod I have has inscribed on the butt cap A. C. Evans 1924. That leads me to believe the inscription is the name of the original owner and likely the year he/she bought or was given the rod. What the HI catalog entry does suggest that the rode is in fact a Winchester rod because the detail fits this rod so well.

Thank you so much for the input..Every bit of data helps build a case for the rod's provenance and that is a hard thing to do on a rod as old as this one.

I sent the rod the Chris Bogart for some minor repairs, a snake guide replacement and some new wraps to replace some homemade wraps that were not very well done. Chris told me he also did some cleanup and added a snake guide to the mid section that was lost or not replaced when a repair was done to the mid section of the rod many years ago. I will take new pictures when I get the rod from Chris and post the new pictures.

Thank you gain..I appreciate your interest and the effort you put into helping ID this od rod!!

[bamboo rodley]

The "black nodes" referred to above are push pins holding the rod in place for the photo. That one threw me for a minute as well, but if you look closely, you see they are not attached to the rod.

[solo8232000]

Thank you, Rodley..I actually was unsure what black nodes I was being asked about earlier..You are correct, they are push pins on which I lay rods when I photograph them..Good Catch!!!

[JiminILL]

From the 1924 Winchester catalog-

[solo8232000]

Hello All..Last week I bought a Winchester ARMAX Model 7241 that has a lot of the characteristics of the diamond wrap..(mystery solved??)
C. Bogart did a great job cleaning up the diamond wrap rod and making the minor repairs need to get it back in fishing condition...Sent this latest rod off for the same treatment..

Thankyou all for your feedback!!

Photos included:

[rmnp]

That Armax looks like Winchester's Armax version of the Winchester 6030. I have a Winchester 6030 and the wraps look the same. It is an 8.5 foot light-gauge trout rod. I do like the one I have for fishing. The 6030, 6035, and 6040 were second to lowest grade in the Winchester line up and sold for $12. The other rod, with the silk winding up the rod is very likely a Horrocks-Ibbotson, made from leftover Winchester hardware after the procurement of the Winchester Rod division in 1932. I have seen no evidence that Winchester made rods with this type of silk winding in 1924, but I would like to see the butt cap you mentioned suggests this year of origin.

[solo8232000]

Hi RMNP..My Armax is also a very light trout rod and also 8.5 ft long, although one tip is about 1" shorter thanthe other. I think it will make a fine rod as the balance is very nice..I suspect the action will be slow to medium slow..The tips are lighter than the 4-5 tips on the diamond wrap..The only identifying information on the butt cap is an inscribed name. A. C. Evans 1924..I in fact have no idea whenthe rod may have been made, but it does look a lot like the H-I rod from the catalog page above. The curious thing to me is that they used some very nice hardware and went to a lot of trouble to wrap a bottom of the line cheapo rod..that is just curious to me...Regardless, I plan to fish the rod next week!! I'll see if I can get a passable photo of the inscription and post it..In fact, I'll just take some new images of the rod since I just received it yesterday from C. Bogart who repaired a few wraps and in general cleaned the rod up...

Solo8232000

NPC

[wrong66]

Horrocks-Ibbotson was still offering this wrap pattern at least four years after the Winchester purchase, as evidenced by this page from H-I's 1936 catalog. I would have bet it to be an H-I model made of Winchester components, as rmnp stated. I still think it could be. There's always a chance the wrapping was done much later and maybe isn't even factory (even though it appears to be). Could have been sent back to H-I at some point for a rewrap. Looks to be a fairly recent overcoat of varnish? Also, the "1924" might have a much different significance than the year of presentation. Would also like to see photos. Cool rod, regardless.
Mark

[rmnp]

Solo... I did not mean to imply your top rod is a bottom-of-the-line cheapo. That is not the case. HI made high-end rods and low-end rods. Furthermore, I don't think your rod is the same exact rod as the Harvey in the above advertisement, but one like it, and maybe higher grade. (also note that the winding is described in the above ad as "new" to HI) I do agree that it is a cool rod. I like it and would like to fish it! Try your Armax with DT-4-F Sylk or 5. The 6030 is a good one. It is a nice fly rod to fish and can make delicate presentations with wet and dry flies.