The Blue Dot Conspiracy

or however that dang word is written! : ) Use this forum to discuss those things that are related to, directly, or indirectly, fly fishing, i.e., tackle, catalogs, single malt scotch, cigar preferences, pipes, camera gear, etc. This is sort of an off topic area but one related to bamboo and fly fishing.

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quashnet
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#21

Post by quashnet »

Brown trout exhibit a high degree of "phenotypic plasticity" even down to the level of an individual fish. This is a fancy way of saying that they can change color and pattern over a relatively brief period of time, in response to environmental conditions. Hatchery trout raised in a concrete trough with overhead netting to protect from predators are liver-brown partly because they live and feed in a highly-uniform, low-complexity environment. If stocked fish survive release into a varied, high-complexity environment for any reasonable period of time (months perhaps; certainly years), they may show adaptive changes in coloration. This isn't evolution of an individual, it's just individual change due to several factors. The blue patch may be a very strong indicator of a wild fish, but it's not absolute proof. I have seen the blue patch on brown trout from put-and-take waters where there is no wild reproduction. But these fish were much larger than typical, recently-stocked trout in those waters. I imagine that the big, beautiful, former stockers had spent a couple of very successful years in their new home.
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mer
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Location: NH

Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#22

Post by mer »

Would it not be possible for all hatchery trout to be microchipped (like dogs) and then anglers would be required to carry a microchip detector/reader? Then one could definitively know if the fish they just caught was hatchery or not.
:)

This is an interesting discussion, but I just like looking at them.
Brookies are the favorite, like little painted toys.
Browns, especially if they've been in the stream for a while (the NH stocked fish definitely change over the course of a year and are prettier than Ma stockers).
Rainbows, are meh.
Salmon parr are just wicked cool.

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quashnet
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#23

Post by quashnet »

Usually it's wild, native trout that are PIT-tagged (PIT=Passive Integrated Transponder) for in-stream studies to protect, enhance, or restore a wild fishery. It actually is a lot like tagging dogs, or zoo animals. I have been involved in programs that do PIT tagging for native brook trout, river herring, Arctic grayling, and lake trout. No technical reason why you couldn't tag stockers, but if you keep the fish and eat it, don't bite down too hard. ;)
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cutthroatkid
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#24

Post by cutthroatkid »

Mer, I tend to agree that some rainbows from larger rivers and lakes are not the prettiest fish, but I've seen some small redband rainbows from little creeks that would give a golden trout a run for the money in a beauty contest.

DaveNJ
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#25

Post by DaveNJ »

We have a creek with little wild bows and they're beautiful. Steely bodies with iridescent purples, blues, and pinks. Sometimes you may get one with par marks and a peppering of spots, really pretty.

I also love the bows on the Delaware when they look like leopards with their spots.




BTW.... I got a beautiful brown with a huge blue dot recently. I waited 9 hours for it (because i'm dumb like that).

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henkverhaar
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#26

Post by henkverhaar »

quashnet wrote:Brown trout exhibit a high degree of "phenotypic plasticity" even down to the level of an individual fish. This is a fancy way of saying that they can change color and pattern over a relatively brief period of time, in response to environmental conditions. Hatchery trout raised in a concrete trough with overhead netting to protect from predators are liver-brown partly because they live and feed in a highly-uniform, low-complexity environment. If stocked fish survive release into a varied, high-complexity environment for any reasonable period of time (months perhaps; certainly years), they may show adaptive changes in coloration. This isn't evolution of an individual, it's just individual change due to several factors.
One of the more vivid examples of this are the multiple reports of lateral differences in coloration in fish that are blind in one eye. The normal sight eye is coloured 'normally' while the blind side is usually almost white.

DUCKMANNM
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Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA

Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#27

Post by DUCKMANNM »

Lucky me! I don't have to worry about a blue spot! If you catch a Brown Trout in New Mexico, it is definitely wild! Only rainbows in NM are stocked!

DaveNJ
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#28

Post by DaveNJ »

That's how the bows are in the Delaware. They only stock browns on the BK, the Willo, and parts of the East Branch. Not 100% sure of the main, and I'm pretty sure they dont stock the west at all.

So my quest hasnt turned up anything definitive yet. One of my big guns was inconclusive, but I think I inspired him. The bigger gun is silent or disinterested in the question. Not sure yet.

bassman
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Re: The Blue Dot Conspiracy

#29

Post by bassman »

mer wrote: Rainbows, are meh...
How can you say that. Though fish are stocked in northern WI streams they spawn and breed a new supply every year, as do the browns as long as there is water in the fall. Brookies are all natives. These fish from the rivers are simply beautiful and really never looked for a blue spot behind the gills on browns. A rainbow with a full stripe is a thing of beauty, much more so than the cutthroat. A brookie in fall is painted like nature was in love with the fish. Browns when having the full color patterns they have in some streams are beautiful.

If someone wonders how fast these fish can change colors in certain conditions they should live where I used to and catch browns, rainbows, and salmon in the open waters of Lake Superior and Lake Michigan and then catch both when first coming into the rivers and then later when they've been in there for awhile. I would imagine if one were to go to Bayfield WI and if there are any old fishermen left you could get into an argument about Sebago Salmon. They insisted the silver fish we'd catch in the lake with the maltese cross patterns on them were Sebagos. The funny thing was after they were in the river for awhile than they've morph in brown trout someway. I have never actually seen an "ugly" trout. Mackinaw Lake Trout are fairly grey and colorless but the Red Fin species we'd catch out at Isle Royale were beautiful and in spawning colors rivaled other char for beauty. Love 'em all.

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