Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

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GerardH
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#21

Post by GerardH »

Bee wrote:
04/08/21 07:00
I used to grouse and woodcock hunt near Seney and was under the impression that the "river" Hemingway used as focal point was actually the Fox River , but renamed for dramatic effect.
Voelker (Robert Traver) devoted an entire chapter in Trout Magic debunking the notion that the Two Hearted River was the stream Nick Adams fished, the Fox was one of the rivers he thought was plausible as being the stream Hemingway actually wrote about.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#22

Post by gt05254 »

More than 50 years ago I took a Hemingway seminar in my first college undergrad career. Had a really good prof and I enjoyed the course more than most that I took. After all this time, about all I remember from the course was the prof's harping on "the bull's balls" as important to think about. I still enjoy reading him. I have a first edition "For Whom the Bell Tolls" with my mother's (then a young, single woman) book plate in it, which is a treasure to me.

Years ago I got to stand in for (I think) Dame Stoddard or some such historically significant person when she was inducted into the IGFA's Hall of Fame posthumously. I got to sit with a lovely woman, Mina Hemingway. Grand daughter or maybe great grand daughter; can't remember. I still have her very cool business card with a Sanibel, FL address and a nice tarpon on it.

Totally off the subject but here it is anyway: Curt Gowdy was the MC at that Hall of Fame deal, and he asked the sons of Mr. Rapala, who was also being inducted posthumously, how to pronounce the name. For the record, it is pronounced RAP o lah, not ra POL uh, as you so often here it said. Right from the horses' mouths.
Gary

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#23

Post by red 1 »

Anybody recall the line from one of his books about his new love instrest that just came in from out side and her hair was all windblown? The courousity the wind made of her hair or something much more in his style
I always loved that windblown look and thought the line was brilliant. I was busy and half caught it and really wish I wrote it down.
I want to be buried with my favorite rod.
I hear the Styx River has Fish.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#24

Post by tyghguy »

Hemingway had his faults. Don't we all ? He was a great writer in my humble opinion. The Nick Adams stories is a masterpiece. I read it at least once a year. I look forward to watching the documentary. Thanks for the posting

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#25

Post by Flykuni3 »

Fascinating to hear of dad's take on Jack, and what a handsome young man. His Misadventures of a Flyfisherman is such a great read. I was especially fascinated to read that in eastern France he ran into elements of the Go For Broke boys, same area where my uncle was in 1944. Jack was captured, uncle was KIA.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#26

Post by mlarocco »

After watching the special I felt the film makers exposed a tragic, not enviable life. The documentary did not develop Hemingway as a Roguish Sean Connery living a high octane life of women and sport but a man obsessed with writing quality literature while unable to truly develop lasting, meaningful relationships. Possibly under developed was the affect the domineering mother 'twinning' young Earnest with his older sister and being reared in a matriarchal household. The series spent more attention developing his relationships with the women that were his temporary life companions than any interactions with male friends. In fact, there was very little exposure of masculine correspondence Hemingway may of have had with male friends. Passing mention of son Jack, some film snippets from son Patrick and a brief discussion about son's Gregory's cross dressing which hinted at Earnest's own experimentation with sex roles later in life.

I was unsure if Hemingway's preoccupation with death started with his near fatal shrapnel accident in WWI or was related to family ties. He apparently despised his father for taking his own life, only to do the same. At the time of Hemingway's death, emotionally he had survived first hand experience with 3 wars (WWI, Spanish Civil, WWII) as well as multiple physical traumas (major shrapnel strafing in WW1, multiple extreme blunt force traumas to the brain, and a plane crash that he survived only because he battered the door open with head). He was a physical and emotional wreck when he pulled the trigger.

As far as blood sport, it was the time of Teddy Roosevelt. Photography was in it's infancy (which he did much more in his Kenya Safari of the 1960's). IOne has to remember that a safari in the early 20th century was a production with many porters, cooks, etc... that had to be fed for the good part of the month. Seems like the only animal he relished killing for killing's sake was the hyenas. Read how many Elk and deer the Lewis and Clark killed during their stay at Fort Clatsop on the Oregon coast.

The documentary did help understand the background of Hemingway's life as he made his literary progression. Not settling to be a newsman or a best selling story teller like Zane Grey he went out there to perfect his writing craft. His contribution to literature will last for centuries, not many authors have that distinction.

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cwfly
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#27

Post by cwfly »

For those interested in more about Hemingway, you might wish to read Carlos Baker's 1969 biography, Ernest Hemingway: A Life Story.
It's written by a scholar and not for any entertainment value (which is not a criticism of the PBS series).

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#28

Post by Greg Reynolds »

cwfly wrote:
04/09/21 16:50
For those interested in more about Hemingway, you might wish to read Carlos Baker's 1969 biography, Ernest Hemingway: A Life Story.
It's written by a scholar and not for any entertainment value (which is not a criticism of the PBS series).
I read Baker's biography 40 years ago. It's excellent.

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#29

Post by Greg Reynolds »

mlarocco wrote:
04/09/21 16:15
After watching the special I felt the film makers exposed a tragic, not enviable life. The documentary did not develop Hemingway as a Roguish Sean Connery living a high octane life of women and sport but a man obsessed with writing quality literature while unable to truly develop lasting, meaningful relationships. Possibly under developed was the affect the domineering mother 'twinning' young Earnest with his older sister and being reared in a matriarchal household. The series spent more attention developing his relationships with the women that were his temporary life companions than any interactions with male friends. In fact, there was very little exposure of masculine correspondence Hemingway may of have had with male friends. Passing mention of son Jack, some film snippets from son Patrick and a brief discussion about son's Gregory's cross dressing which hinted at Earnest's own experimentation with sex roles later in life.

I was unsure if Hemingway's preoccupation with death started with his near fatal shrapnel accident in WWI or was related to family ties. He apparently despised his father for taking his own life, only to do the same. At the time of Hemingway's death, emotionally he had survived first hand experience with 3 wars (WWI, Spanish Civil, WWII) as well as multiple physical traumas (major shrapnel strafing in WW1, multiple extreme blunt force traumas to the brain, and a plane crash that he survived only because he battered the door open with head). He was a physical and emotional wreck when he pulled the trigger.

As far as blood sport, it was the time of Teddy Roosevelt. Photography was in it's infancy (which he did much more in his Kenya Safari of the 1960's). IOne has to remember that a safari in the early 20th century was a production with many porters, cooks, etc... that had to be fed for the good part of the month. Seems like the only animal he relished killing for killing's sake was the hyenas. Read how many Elk and deer the Lewis and Clark killed during their stay at Fort Clatsop on the Oregon coast.

The documentary did help understand the background of Hemingway's life as he made his literary progression. Not settling to be a newsman or a best selling story teller like Zane Grey he went out there to perfect his writing craft. His contribution to literature will last for centuries, not many authors have that distinction.
Well written and I share your opinions, especially the last sentence.

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#30

Post by Greg Reynolds »

mlarocco wrote:
04/09/21 16:15
As far as blood sport, it was the time of Teddy Roosevelt. Photography was in it's infancy (which he did much more in his Kenya Safari of the 1960's). IOne has to remember that a safari in the early 20th century was a production with many porters, cooks, etc... that had to be fed for the good part of the month. Seems like the only animal he relished killing for killing's sake was the hyenas. Read how many Elk and deer the Lewis and Clark killed during their stay at Fort Clatsop on the Oregon coast.
As an aside, a large number of the animals shot in Roosevelt's East African safari were for The Smithsonian Institution, and some are still on display. The book of his experiences there, African Game Trails is worth reading:
https://library.si.edu/digital-library/ ... amet00roos

For those who don't understand the importance of big game hunting to conservation in Africa:
https://www.conservationfrontlines.org/ ... inability/

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#31

Post by Cimarron »

Carlos Baker's description of Hemingway attempting to jump out of a plane helped me decide not to evacuate a large and very unstable person by air from the bush long ago. We went the long way by boat instead which had its own bizarre adventures, but we didn't have to deal with a suicidal leap. I credit Baker's biography with perhaps saving a life.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#32

Post by Randyflycaster »

Am I the only one who thinks he is an over rated writer? I do not feel he offered a unique view of the world, though he wrote some nice sentences.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#33

Post by DaveNJ »

"For sale, baby shoes; never worn."

One of the best to ever do it. Looking forward to catching this.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#34

Post by MKA »

To spend a day with Hemingway on his boat, fishing, and drinking, would have been a dream come true for me! And even better getting a photo of me with my trophy along side of him on the dock at the end of the day, wow. And even better, then getting an invite to a dinner party later that evening at his house...yep, love and respect the guy. He accomplished more than most...

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#35

Post by mlarocco »

Am I the only one who thinks he is an over rated writer?
In the documentary, 3 different people have widely different views on the importance of the 'Old Man and the Sea'. I am sure others share your opinion.


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rhmill01
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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#36

Post by rhmill01 »

A balanced portrait of an important and gifted artist. Like his mentor Mark Twain, Hemingway was largely self-taught. I was hoping Burns would say more about the wide range of EH's reading, as is attested by the many bookcases lining the walls of his homes. The account of BTHR brought back memories of my fishing days in the UP, and one memorable day on the Fox, when I caught nothing. Should have used live grasshoppers.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#37

Post by DaveNJ »

mlarocco wrote:
04/10/21 09:37
Am I the only one who thinks he is an over rated writer?
In the documentary, 3 different people have widely different views on the importance of the 'Old Man and the Sea'. I am sure others share your opinion.


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I don't like any of his longer works. Even OMATS is a little lame around the edges. However, the Nick Adams stories are wonderful and I enjoy hearing his takes on writing.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#38

Post by mlarocco »

I don't like any of his longer works. Even OMATS is a little lame around the edges
I think a story can resonate differently with different audiences. The person who loved OMATS in the documentary said it might be read differently by different age groups. The woman interviewed really didn't think much of it. Artists who end up canonized in history change their art forms. Would Hawthorne be a contemporary person's first choice off the library shelf? I recall how painful Shakespeare was to read in High School ('I need an interpreter to read this 'english' junk").

Look at periods of art and their representative artists. Michelangelo, da Vinci, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso, Miro, Dali, Warhol, Pollock, de Kooning, etc...Not universally appreciated but all have places in art history.

People should read what they enjoy. Hopefully personal choice is never taken away from us.

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#39

Post by bearbutt »

MKA wrote:
04/10/21 08:58
To spend a day with Hemingway on his boat, fishing, and drinking, would have been a dream come true for me! A
LOL--are you sure? Arnold Gingrich spent a few days with Hemingway on both Anita (in 1934) and Pilar (in 1935 and 1936) and was very impressed by Hem's decided lack of sportsmanship. He describes this in a chapter titled "Horsing them in with Hemingway" in The Well-Tempered Angler:

"Ernest was a meat fisherman. He cared more about the quantity than about quality, and was more concerned with the capture of his quarry than with his means employed to do it. He was also--and this is what no true angler is--intensely competitive about his fishing, and a very poor sport. If the luck was out, then nobody around him could do any right, and he was ready to blame everybody in sight, ahead of himself. When things were going right he was quick to promote everybody in his company to high rank as good fellows, and was jovially boastful about their every least accomplishment, as well as his own. But let a hook pull out and his attitude was never to praise the fish that managed to bend it, but only to blame the hookmaker."

As a writer, he revised relentlessly, and I'll give him a lot of credit for that. A Farewell to Arms had forty-seven different endings before being published, not to mention at least forty-four different titles. Some were pretty bad too. He tried "Love is one fervent fire" and "Education of the flesh" and "They who got shot," but these were, as Hemingway modestly noted in the margin of his manuscript, "Shitty."

Happy Saturday,
bb

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Re: Hemingway PBS Ken Burns

#40

Post by mlarocco »

nobody around him could do any right
I think there are some similarities between Hemingway's and Ted Williams personalities. Arguably the best pure hitter of modern baseball, Ted Williams was described by many as impossible to be around. Teammate, fellow HOF'r and life long fishing companion Bobby Doerr (The Teammates: A Portrait of a Friendship) said as much, but wrote it off as a personality quirk that made Williams the best at what he did. I think two of the things that left me confused about the Burns documentary was the lack of presenting Hemingway's male friends perspectives on his behavior as well as an interpretation of life events by a professional psychologist. The latter may have been on purpose to promote discussion.

As far as opinions on his body of work, I was not part of the 'Lost Generation'. The subject matter is not close to my personal experience. I have been bill fishing close to 50 times. On multiple occasions I have spent hours harnessed into a cruiser's fighting chair hooked up to a large bill-fish. Long after the initial adrenaline surge of seeing a couple hundred yards spin off the reel I have dealt with the physical and mental fatigue of an extended battle. A fish the size of an elk. The body's request to give up and the mind's determination not to lose to the quarry. Like the trout fisherman that fantasizes about an engagement with an enormous rainbow I can see an ardent bill fisherman dreaming about the super fish that comes up in the spread and takes his bait. For most of us the fantasy ends with us riding into Valhalla, the conquering hero. In Hemingway's work of fiction, Santiago overcomes the frailties of his aging body and defeats the epic fish, but in an irony of fate his trophy of conquest is consumed by predators at sea. Eventually Santiago gives up all attempts to defend his evidence. He returns to port a conqueror defeated by circumstance. This story is more in my personal wheel house.

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