Orvis leader kit

[Dale H]

At least I think that is what this is. I bought it off C-list last week. So, my questions is, is the material still useable or did I just buy another curiosity to put on the shelf with my solid wooden rods and my father's old steel fly rod?

It has six stacking containers and each has two small spools of leader material ranging from 4X to .013".


Each of the spools looks like this:


Am I wasting my time trying to tie up leaders from these spools?

Thanks for any input,

Dale H

[Greg Reynolds]

Hi Dale,

I believe that leader material was sold by Orvis prior to the mid-1980s. It's much too old to use.

Regards,
Greg

[mdwwhw]

I was given quite a few of those spools not long ago. The line may have more memory than I do. Neat to see, though.

[GerardH]

I still have leaders that I built back in the '80s and boy, I'm not seeing any degradation or loss of strength. Kept out of sunlight and heat, I believe leader material can last a lot longer than people think. Proceed with caution if you use it, hand test the material and your knots carefully.

[rsagebrush]

I thought it was supposed to last 500 years or something. I have mono leader material that still works great after 6 or 7 years, I keep it in an airtight box in a closet. I don't think the Orvis material would be useable at this point though, probably wasn't stored right, nice curiosity though.

[henkverhaar]

I'm reasonably sure this wasn't a kit as provided by Orvis. The stack of containers looks like the container stacks I buy for dubbing - I would guess someone bought one or more of these stacks and 'discovered' that those tippet spools fit in nicely.

It's probably been more than 40 years since Orvis used French nylon (probably Rhodia). Style and 'wear' look like some of the French spools I have from the 1970s. Personally I wouldn't trust the material, certainly not for knot strength and shock strength, but testing it will tell you everything. Chances are that, if they were kept in those containers from the moment of purchase (not very likely, but not impossible either) and stored in a even halfway decent manner, the stuff might just be OK. Those containers are actually pretty airtight, so not much 'additional' oxygen will leak in if kept closed, and the plastic material should filter out at least some UV as well (see e.g. https://www.gsoptics.com/transmission-curves/ for plastics, and for reference, https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... gures?lo=1 for glass...

[Loogie]

With a gentle pull they will appear to be ok, if you try and snap it a little it will pop very easily. Specially the lighter tippet. Wouldn’t trust it.

[Dale H]

The spools are not full, so they have been used and probably not stored in the best of conditions. Guess I will tie a few knots and see how strong they are.

It never occurred to me that the the spools and containers might not have been supplied as a kit, but it certainly is reasonable. Maybe I can find a use for the containers if the leader material isn't useable.

Thanks, guys

Dale H

[narcodog]

I have one, or had an Orvis Leader kit that I bought on the '70's using those spools. The kit came in a square green tinted box with a sheet of formulas. They also sold a small leader gauge, now I don't remember if the gauge came with the kit or not.

[quashnet]

Way back in the past I also had the Orvis leader kit box full of these spools, with the page of formulas for tying leaders of various lengths, plus the leader gauge.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, Platyl, probably. Top O' the line in it's day. Try it, you have nothing to loose but a fish and/or fly.

Jay Edwards

[Greg Reynolds]

I have one, or had an Orvis Leader kit that I bought on the '70's using those spools. The kit came in a square green tinted box with a sheet of formulas. They also sold a small leader gauge, now I don't remember if the gauge came with the kit or not.

Orvis sold the French nylon tippet material from 1969 through 1988. Based on the labels, I believe the spools in the OP were made in the early-mid 1970s.

From the 1976 Catalog:


From the 1981 Catalog--note the Pezon & Michel branding:

[henkverhaar]

Hi Guys, Platyl, probably.

Unlikely, as Platil was, and is, a German brand, not French (founded by the 'Plate' brothers if I remember correctly), and the nylon they used (at least initially, was Nylon 6 (from caprolactam), not Nylon 66 (from hexamethylenediamine and adipic acid, like Dupont's original nylon). I think Rhodia had a license for nylon 66...

Note that that catalog picture sez 'luxor' and 'Pezon&Michel'. Now P&M didn't make their own nylon, that was rebranded also. Again, IIRC, it was Rhodia nylon.

Interestingly, I have one of those barrel knot tying contraptions - although I didn't realize it was that old. I got mine in the 90s, I think. Too much trouble to use in the field BTW - I just tie my barrel knots by hand.

[prairieschooner]

I have a set of those stacked containers; I keep flies in mine. I thought that's what they were for .

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, Ah ha! Thanks henkverhaar....

Jay Edwards

[DrLogik]

I would say your kit is a nice addition to the shelf. I have one also that I bought as a teenager in the 1970's. I still have it. The problem with Nylon mono over the years, as has been stated, is that it gets brittle and stiff. Mine has the consistency of stiff wire now, even the tippet.

[henkverhaar]

Done some digging, and 'Platyl' apparently was a trademark used in the States, first (?) by Gladding, then Garcia, for nylon from Germany - haven't been able to find a definitive source but it is more than likely that it was produced by the same source that marketed it as Platil in Europe... Note that the trade name for nylon6 was 'Perlon'. There are differences in properties between nylon and person, with person being the better shock absorber (sudden pulls), and nylon better at water absorption (less absorption). With today's plethora of different monofilaments (nylons with loads of additives; fluorocarbons, etc), I think that the difference between the original nylon and perlon are relevant only from a historical perspective...

[Short Tip]

Wasn't the Pezon et Michel/Orvis material Kroic brand? Or was that just a descriptor? Seems like most of the P&M stuff was also marked "Kroic" on the spool. They had 8X back in the day!

[henkverhaar]

Could be, although as far as I can remember Kroic was sold as such, as a brand separate from P&M. Kroic was also Rhodia nylon.

Not sure about today, but a couple of years back, way past the demise of P&M, Kroic brand nylon could still be bought, new.
Hans van der Pauw, a Dutch retired historian with an interest in fishing (primarily ultralight spinning and carp fishing) has a short, anecdotal paper on the history on nylon fishing line, partly from a European perspective, on his website. The paper is in Dutch, but should translate reasonably well with Google Translate: http://jlvanderpauw.nl/wp-content/uploa ... lommen.pdf

[Short Tip]

Thanks! My memory isn't completely shot, a quick google search turns up a few spools marked both Pezon et Michel and Kroic. There's even an example that is also marked Dan Bailey's along with the other two. And it appears Kroic is still around. https://www.amazon.co.uk/WATER-QUEEN-kr ... B07D1PPGLZ