Dingley? Franken-reel

[Mole-Patrol]

I won a reel at auction the other day and am awaiting delivery,which may take considerably longer than normal given the current circumstances.

The reel described as a JJS Walker Bampton & Co. caught my eye in that it looked Dingleyesque but I could not find a WB model that matched it. The noticeable features of the etching line through spokes, the handles & latch and the brass buttons along with the maker suggest to me the hand of William H Dingley. The spool boss however is more like a Hardy and the general appearance of the reel is reminiscent of an early Hardy Silex.

It is inscribed with the WB & Co markings but the position of the inscription is such that it is partially obscured by a brass button that appears to be a demountable check. This partial obliteration suggests that the reel was not made for sale. Another oddity, and there are more, is that as well as the brass button it also appears to have a half-coin adjuster. There is also a third screw adjuster that is recessed into the frame and is not strapped.

The front plate is latched with a sliding brass button and enclosed on 180 degrees by a molded alloy line guard that is attached by four counter sunk screws. This line guard is similar in style to the brass one photographed in the 'D is for Dingley' book that is attributed by the author to be an experimental design. As is mentioned in the text describing the unknown reel, this one also has features that fit one model or another, but not all the features can be found on any one reel that I know of.

My initial thoughts are that it may be a one-off for a special order, possibly a centrepin for float fishing as the spokes appear to be set at a greater diameter than on casting and fly reels. Or, it could be a rejected body used as a test bed for new ideas.

The auctioneer's labels mask much of the detail so I have cropped the interesting bits. Once I get it and open it up there may be some answers and there may be some more questions to answer. It also may of course just be a pile of old junk

[dder]

Sounds like you got the Dingley book so can,t add much to relation ship between Walker B and Dingley shop other than whats there. There is one WB with same spindle boss and coin shaped piece on rim to disengage pawl in book page 110 i think. The reel you have coming seems to have that and the sliding button to which is interesting and when you get reel please post some more pictures as interested in how that works. I have a flat bar latch WB with the same spindle boss shape on back and the same sliding button too and in book there is a 3 1/2 WB called the Utility (have it here now) and it has same shape sliding button to.Will post a pic when get time of the flat bar. Daryl

[dder]

Heres pics Clive

back with spindle boss shaped like Hardy used.

here is spool face .

[cdmoore]

That looks like a very unusual factory counterweight. Do you know if it is factory / original?

[Mole-Patrol]

Heres pics Clive

back with spindle boss shaped like Hardy used.

here is spool face .

Thanks Daryl. The casting looks very similar; same boss, but no recess for the small check tension adjuster. Yours looks like a lovely reel.

I looked at the reels in the Dingley book and also at any I could find online. The reel that I bought has features from the Utility and also from other Walker Bampton reels but as I said, I couldn't find a WB reel that has all the features of this one.

The sliding brass button on your reel performs the same task as the half coin albeit one is more temporary in being used only during the cast and the other, like yours is 'off' until it is physically switched back 'on'.

[dder]

Heres a pic of inside of spool and counterweight attachment CD. I don,t know for sure but think it has been on there for a long time, same for the lineguide, may have been added but not recently.

[dder]

Clive the WB I showed is a fly reel but the button puts it into freespool and it has no tensioner adjustment.Waiting for a pic to come from phone but slow . Did get couple of shots of a Hardy silex check

The coin shaped peice through rim either locks pawl in or out of the path of gear on spool on this reel and the free spool lever of brass allows reel to spin free to cast.
Here is another Dingley made reel, called the Climax and badged for W Haynes &Son Cork

Same arrangement on it the coin shaped bit either has pawl engaged or silent and on this reel the Ivory ended lever allows reel to cast in free spool. this one has a strap over on the tensioner adjustment. There were several different check arrangements and please share some pictures of your reel when you get it. Thanks Daryl

[Mole-Patrol]

While waiting for the reel to arrive I have been doing some digging. And noticed that the reel is not a 'JJS Walker Bampton & Co" but an earlier "JJS Walker & Co'; i.e. pre Bampton.

John James Selby Walker was listed in the 1891 UK census as being a Fishing Rod Maker and there was no annotation of 'employee' so it was probably his own business. in 1901 and 1911 he was again listed as a 'Cane Fishing Rod Maker' and not as an employee.

Charles D Bampton was listed in the 1901 census as a Nautical Instrument Maker and again the suggestion was that he worked for himself. 10 years later in 1911 he is shown as a Brass Finisher at a Fishing Tackle and Rod Makers, with no employee annotation.

1911 is the year that William H Dingley left Hardys and according to the DifD book, joined his friend JJS Walker. Based on info in Drewitt's book W.H. Dingley was listed in the 1913 J.J.S. Walker & Co. catalogue as the head of the company's reel making department.

Westley Richards listed a Dingley made reel, The Rollo in 1911 and the Premier appeared in their catalogue in 1912. There were also other reels made for retailers from the same sort of date - Alex Martin Favourite for example.

Understandably there weren't many reels sold just with the 'JJS Walker & Co' engraving on them although I have seen one on here illustrated with the company name cast in raised lettering rather than the usual stamp. Charles Bampton died in 1948 in Alnwick so may have been involved in the company for many years.

[dder]

Interesting that it is a JJ Walker and Co marked reel, would be earlier than 19?? Do you have a source for when Charles Bampton became a partner or got his name added to the JJ Walker and Co marking.The whole Walker and Walker B and Dingley connection is very interesting to me. I was just looking here and found I have another flat bar latch WB in 3 inch with the same shape spindle boss as your reel. WB seemed to use a different brass than Dingley to with a brighter colour. Then there is Fosters Bros of Ashbourne as well. Their reels seem identical to the JJ Walker B production although I think I remember a Dingley perfect branded for them somewhere as well. I,m looking forward to seeing what the check in reel you got coming looks like as with no Bampton yet will be an early one.That last reel I posted picture of "the Climax" has a check similar to the Rollo i think.Don,t have many of this type of reel and they are all different as to checks but that is interesting too. Thanks for the research on the time line. Daryl

[Mole-Patrol]

I think that Bampton would be working at Walker & Co at the time of the 1911 census given the note that he was working at a 'Fishing Rods Tackle Factory' (sic). JJS Walker & Co had been operating for years as a rod maker and employed Bampton to do brass rod and net fittings according to the 1913 catalogue. At the same time Dingley became detached from Hardy whether that was pre-planned or sudden I don't know, but according to the books he went straight to JJS Walker & Co. being a friend of John Walker and Charles Bampton.

The same year, 1911 Westley Richards included the Rollo in their catalogue and Alex Martin listed The Favourite and the following year Westley Richards listed The Premier so Dingley was producing reels for other retailers without any Walker branding in 1911 & 1912. The first reel included in the DifD book marked JJS Walker Bampton & Co is dated 1913 - The Master. But he same year according to Drewett Dingley was also listed as 'Head of Reel Making' at JJS Walker & Co. and an auction listing from Christies includes:

THREE DINGLEY 4in., ALLOY REELS
All with twin ivorine handles and brake handles, caged drums, one marked Graham and Co., Inverness; another J.J.S. Walker & Co., the "Climax"; the third unmarked (3)

That indicates that Dingley had produced The Climax under JJS Walker & Co before Bampton was added.

According to DifD however and contrary to the date they have given for the Walker Bampton The Master it is thought that JJS Walker Bampton & Co commenced some time from 1918-21 from the local directory sources they used.

There may be some sort of business directory that lists company directors but I do not have any idea of where to find one.

Dingley maintained a close relationship with Westley Richards and one of their directors Douglas Haines took out two patents for Dingley produced reels in the 1926 -31 period. They would have had skilled engineers working in their gun production factory so these improvements might well have come from their own staff and absorbed into Dingley's work.

[WallaceWatson]

WH Dingley was awarded patent no. 20,133 on September 11, 1911. It looks like it was for the Rolo reel mechanism.
This may mean that Dingley was working independently and also for JJS Walker when he first left Hardy. At that time Dingley lived in Howick Street and there were several small tackle manufacturers living and working there at the same time.

[Mole-Patrol]

Yes, Dingley's 1911 patent was for the two rollers in the braking system. Hardy on the other hand were planning on simplifying the internals of their latest model. And, as you say; Dingley was producing reels for other manufacturers right from the split with Hardy as well as heading the newly formed reel department at JJS Walker & Co.

Given this and the war interfering with production after which JJS Walker had become Walker Bampton the early JJS Walker & Co reels must be pretty scarce.

[stefan duma]

Hardy's were not "planning to simplify" the internal working of their reel they had done it.

As I explained in my book The Dreadnought Casting Reel Company Wadham and Scott had come to an arrangement with Hardy Brothers whereby they could use each others patent. This was after some protracted legal arguments and threats. The licensing between the two companies had been agreed by June 1909.

[Mole-Patrol]

Stefan, I notice that on your web site that you refer to W H Dingley as Walter, not William as he was Christened. Was Walter his nick-name or is this an error?

http://www.antiquetackleobserver.com/ca ... r-dingley/

[flyslinger]

Here is a discussion about Walter/William.viewtopic.php?f=72&t=39594

[Mole-Patrol]

Thanks, but I saw that some years ago and am still no wiser. I had hoped that the DifD book might have addressed it. I'd also like to know whether Dingley fished? I have seen brief references to him coming up with the idea if a braked spool while watching Slater on the Trent and Slater learning him to spin, but nothing concrete.

[stefan duma]

Walter was the name everyone called him by before the book came out.

Raymond Humble who died earlier this year in his 90's knew of him when he started at Hardy's in 1937 and referred to him as Walter.

Dingley's grandson called him William, and that Walter was wrong but also said that there were no catalogues produced by the company I have seen four catalogues.

Pay your money and take your chances.

I do not know if Dingley fished but certainly learnt the art of using a centerpin from Slater who employed Dingley for a number of years.

[Mole-Patrol]

Thanks for that. The endorsement by a life long friend and former colleague would be enough, but if there are catalogues with Walter printed on them then that should prove it beyond all doubt.

[stefan duma]

Thanks for that. The endorsement by a life long friend and former colleague would be enough, but if there are catalogues with Walter printed on them then that should prove it beyond all doubt.

No Raymond was not a friend he was a reel maker at Hardy's when Dingley was still alive and working in the same industry in Alnwick.

The family said his name was William not Walter but they could have been mistaken as they were about the catalogues.

I was going to post the cover of one of the catalogues but they must be on another machine.

[Mole-Patrol]

There was a R Humble working at Hardys during Dingley's time there and he participated in some of the activities organised by the committee of which Dingley was a member. But young Raymond Humble didn't arrive on the scene as an apprentice until well into Dingley's dotage so the catalogues would really be the key.