C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

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sanderson
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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#21

Post by sanderson »

according to Orvis, an exact replica of the original, machined from 6061 bar-stock aluminum with type 2 anodizing to same tolerance of original. Bogdans 1971 design was a remake of the original vented port design of Fredrick Orvis in 1874.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#22

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

This is all just everyone's concept of the Bogdan CFO... with this being the latest iteration...

It looks :

Sturdy - like I want to drop it.
Tight - I wish to spin it.
Gold - not my first choice

The fish don't care the color... but I hear the black is coming down the pipeline...
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#23

Post by Godfroy »

sanderson wrote:
11/19/21 10:43
according to Orvis, an exact replica of the original, machined from 6061 bar-stock aluminum with type 2 anodizing to same tolerance of original. Bogdans 1971 design was a remake of the original vented port design of Fredrick Orvis in 1874.
If that is the case it is surprising, and sad, that (according to the Orvis site), " Spool is not backwards compatible with previous C.F.O. reels."

For decades, although there were various changes to the reel, the spools were always compatible with any of the reels.

When Hardy reintroduced the Marquis reels, after a significant gap, they built them so that spools were compatible and interchangeable between the old Marquis and the new Marquis LWT.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#24

Post by G-ManBart »

Brian K. Shaffer wrote:
11/19/21 11:10
The fish don't care the color... but I hear the black is coming down the pipeline...
They are taking pre-orders now for the black version....$329.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#25

Post by G-ManBart »

Godfroy wrote:
11/19/21 11:50
sanderson wrote:
11/19/21 10:43
according to Orvis, an exact replica of the original, machined from 6061 bar-stock aluminum with type 2 anodizing to same tolerance of original. Bogdans 1971 design was a remake of the original vented port design of Fredrick Orvis in 1874.
If that is the case it is surprising, and sad, that (according to the Orvis site), " Spool is not backwards compatible with previous C.F.O. reels."

For decades, although there were various changes to the reel, the spools were always compatible with any of the reels.
In theory yes, but not always in practice. I wasn't there at the time, but folks that worked in Orvis shops said they used to frequently have to try more than one spool to get a replacement to fit the Hardy reels. After the switch to BFR that stopped being an issue and the replacement spools essentially always fit.

I have a small collection of CFOs and have CFO IIIs from Hardy, BFR and Abel along with spare spools. I've done some swapping/testing and noted a few trends. If I put one of the Hardy spools on the newer reels there is often some end play...it's not awful, but it's noticeable. Those spools on the Hardy reel have no end play. If I put the newer spools on the Hardy reel the latch lever doesn't engage fully on some of them. I don't think the spool would fly off, but I certainly wouldn't use them paired that way. If I get one of the new reels it would be very interesting to see if they'll work on the Abel version as they appear to be twins.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#26

Post by Godfroy »

That is interesting. I only have four CFO III reels, two Hardy and two BFR plus two spare spools, so six spools in all. All the spools work with all the reels. There was one spool whose latch did not fully engage but I fixed that and I can't now remember what I did.

The two BFR ones are green and the Hardy reels are grey as are both the spare spools so I use the spare spools with the Hardy reels but the grey spools fit the green reels.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#27

Post by ffftroutbum »

Wish they would have kept the nickel silver line guard :(. Oh well. The foot looks kinda beefy too…

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#28

Post by G-ManBart »

Godfroy wrote:
11/19/21 14:48
That is interesting. I only have four CFO III reels, two Hardy and two BFR plus two spare spools, so six spools in all. All the spools work with all the reels. There was one spool whose latch did not fully engage but I fixed that and I can't now remember what I did.

The two BFR ones are green and the Hardy reels are grey as are both the spare spools so I use the spare spools with the Hardy reels but the grey spools fit the green reels.
I should have been more specific....the end play is mostly with the Hardy spools on the Abel reel. The BFR spools tend to work on the Hardy reels perfectly from what I've seen. Some Hardy spools can be troublesome, but that's even on Hardy reels, so it's probably a touch of inconsistency in the Hardy spools more than anything. There was a good thread on this somewhere I'll have to try digging up...nothing earth-shattering, but interesting.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#29

Post by G-ManBart »

ffftroutbum wrote:
11/19/21 15:22
Wish they would have kept the nickel silver line guard :(. Oh well. The foot looks kinda beefy too…
The nickel silver line guard would probably look nice with the black as well.

Going off the pictures, the foot looks identical in profile to the one on the Abel version. If that turns out to be true, some of the difference is perspective.

I just put Abel, BFR and Hardy versions next to one another and the Abel looks bigger from the side than it does from the front...at least somewhat because it's slightly taller. It has more of a taper than the BFR and Hardy versions which are flatter, and that makes the difference stand out even more. I measured the difference and the Abel reel seat stands .085" higher than the Hardy version.

The interesting thing is that the Abel seat is thinner at the very ends and is narrower as well at .515" versus .530" and has bigger cutouts.

I wish the new version was a bit flatter, but if it's like the Abel version I don't think it will cause a problem with anything but the smallest seat rings. I put the Abel version on an old Superfine Ultra-Fine 2wt just to see and it was okay...that has a pretty tiny cork and ring grip.


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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#30

Post by davemaine »

This is great news. I've been waiting for years for this. I like the look of the black ones on the website. My guess is that they are machined in Brattleboro, VT by the same outfit that makes their Mirage series. That was the plan, anyway, when I talked to someone at Orvis several years ago now.

I never did pull the trigger on the Abel ones, but I think I will on this one. I love my screw back CFO, but I'm getting shy about fishing it wherever a drop on a rock is possible. A fully machined bar stock CFO seems ideal for day to day fishing.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#31

Post by G-ManBart »

davemaine wrote:
11/26/21 14:51
I never did pull the trigger on the Abel ones, but I think I will on this one.
One of the Abel versions went for $425 on the big auction site today...yikes! I have one, and it's super nice, but I don't think it could be $100 better than the new black version.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#32

Post by FreestoneVintage »

I just saw the new standard CFO III on the Orvis site. I spoke with someone at Orvis this morning and he confirmed that they are not made by Abel. It would make sense to me if they were made in the same facility as the Mirage series.

They look nice, and $329 seems like a fair price for a fully machined, US made reel. The closed rivets are throwing me off a bit, but I'm sure I could get used to it. According to the site they are going to ship pre-orders in February. It wouldn't surprise me if that gets pushed back to the spring though. I wonder how long it takes before they start producing different sizes.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#33

Post by Mike1227 »

FreestoneVintage wrote:
11/30/21 14:32

The closed rivets are throwing me off a bit, but I'm sure I could get used to it.
The rivets look the same as some previous editions, though some releases were without rivets, and the Abel version are almost like pins versus rivets. I have one of each previous releases, rivets, no rivets, and the beautiful Abel version. They are all nice. I also have a new one on order.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#34

Post by ibookje »

Surely technically superb and fishing wise absolutely perfect.

For me a CFO ‘should’ be made in England, preferably by Hardy.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#35

Post by cdmoore »

If only Orvis really had mirrored the original Bogdan prototype (!!!) since it is unlikely (m)any of us will ever get to handle the original, let alone fish or own it. I personally love the "in the white" finish, metal drag knob and Bogdan drag design. If anyone wants to compare the 50th to the Bogdan prototype (if there was only one...debatable), you can read about and see photos of the latter here or visit the website of the AMFF where that reel currently resides. There are some minor differences between the reels externally, while the check mechanism is quite different.

Neither is the 50th an exact reproduction of any previous CFO versions, including the pre-production release, which you can see here and a few other threads on this forum. Nearly every variant of the venerable CFO, including special / custom runs, can be found buried in this forum, although many pictures now have broken links, or you can see many of them on rustyspinner's site. That said, it's something like 95%+ similar, which is good enough for trout fishing, and just different enough to keep collectors interested which also helps out Orvis.

I'm not sure about the notion that the CFO is an homage to the original Orvis reel. It's a nice thought. We're really talking about the heavy porting here, which, if not originated by Orvis way back when, was certainly popularized by them among anglers and possibly the wider industry. Maybe one could add narrow spool to that list. So in that sense, one could make the connection, but I don't think there was an effort by Mr. Bogdan to commemorate the original reel. (BTW, did everyone see the all aluminum version of the original at Lang's? Wowza!) The case is much stronger for a derivation of the Lee Wulff Ultimate made by Sharpe's of Aberdeen for Norm Thompson. That reel was also designed by Stan Bogdan, specifically for Lee Wulff, funded by Thompson and which preceded the CFO by several years. No significant CFO collection should be without one, IMHO. As an angler, and later as a reel maker, surely Stan would have been aware of reels made by Hardy and others--they would have been the stepping off point for his own innovations and excellence. I don't think one can look at the dust cap on his CFO prototype and come away thinking that he originated that particular part when Hardy's had been producing something identical for nearly half a century. The CFO is simply the trout version of the LWU, following the same design principles for strength and palmability, combined with radical light weight (for the times)--a marriage of the LWU to the by-then-iconic LRH Lightweight, but keeping his own check mechanism as preferable or perhaps cheaper to manufacture than Hardy's. In the end, the final CFO effort blended in additional existing Hardy's design elements, particularly the enamel paint and the check works. What we may never know is how many prototype CFO reels were produced by Stan, what they looked like compared to the example at the AMFF, and whether or not the AMFF example with Hardy elements was the result of managed collaboration or simple inspiration.

Regardless of the minutiae of the 50th and its resemblance to earlier versions, one thing is for sure: if I were in the market, I would take the 50th over a Douglas Argus reel every single day of the week.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#36

Post by PYochim »

cdmoore wrote:
12/01/21 10:12
Regardless of the minutiae of the 50th and its resemblance to earlier versions, one thing is for sure: if I were in the market, I would take the 50th over a Douglas Argus reel every single day of the week.
Did anyone ever think that the Douglas Argus, 50th Anniversary CFO and the Orvis Mirage may all be made in the same factory? just a thought.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#37

Post by G-ManBart »

PYochim wrote:
12/01/21 10:26

Did anyone ever think that the Douglas Argus, 50th Anniversary CFO and the Orvis Mirage may all be made in the same factory? just a thought.
Douglas Outdoors is headquartered in NY....hard to imagine them having a production facility in Vermont. I'm not sure, but I think I saw a related thread that said there was no connection.

Interesting article about the facility where the Mirage reels are made....Norm (owner) doesn't sound like one of the names I've seen associated with Douglas.http://thefiberglassmanifesto.blogspot. ... -made.html

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#38

Post by tunafart »

The inner trappings have a feel of JW Young design elements,
like the spiral tension cam, long curved check levers and flat-top pawl posts.

just my 2cents...

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#39

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

I would love to know of other CFO prototypes... still shocked one was sold at Langs.
cdmoore, The LWU would also like to be in my collection - but one has not been located just yet.

Reminds me of the book.. recounting when Stan made a copy of another reel on total accident,
which he had nearly done with the Perfect while making the Bogdan Reel.

That new CFO pictured above looks delicious!
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

Use the SEARCH for justification and reasoning.

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Re: C.F.O III 50th Anniversary Reel

#40

Post by PYochim »

ibookje wrote:
12/01/21 06:37
For me a CFO ‘should’ be made in England, preferably by Hardy.
I beg to differ. It is design for a US company by a US reelmaker. Make it here. :) :)

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