Reincarnation

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alpom
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Reincarnation

#21

Post by alpom »

Meek 44

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Holireels
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#22

Post by Holireels »

Well, that link was quite useful as it applies to determining the actual material of the side plates in the Philbrook: http://asoac.org/bulletins/96h_ardman_rubber.pdf.  The author even explains how to dermine if the material is gutta-percha, mud, or hard rubber.  Although, due to the price of the reels, there are probably not a lot of owners wanting to stick a hot needle into their side plates.  But, it would be very interesting to find out though what it actually is.  Quoted below is his test of the material:


How do you identify Mud? Heat up a needle until
it is hot and gently touch it to the sample in an inconspicuous
place. If it melts easily, it is probably Mud. If it
softens but does not melt, it could be gutta-percha. If it
does not melt or soften, it is likely hard rubber or
Bakelite. (Figures 25 and 26)
The test for hard rubber is to rub it briskly on
your pants and quickly smell it. You won’t forget the
smell of warm rubber. Gutta-percha doesn’t have that
odor. But, rub Mud on your trousers and it is likely to
smear.

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#23

Post by gespliesste »

Your welcome.

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#24

Post by reelsmith »

gespliesste wrote:Dean,
if you have the chance you should try to get in contact with Jim Hardman. If I remember right he is the one who say it is not hard rubber it is "Mud"  http://asoac.org/bulletins/96h_ardman_rubber.pdf  Jim owns or owned a marbleized  Leonard.
Thanks.

Jim and I have been good friends for over 20 years now and have discussed this at length. The P&P reel I pictured did not melt when the hot pin test was applied and it did smell like any other hard rubbber reel when rubbed. I greatly respect Jim and his opinion. He is quite the scholar. But ....

Image


....maybe the material used changed over the years?

Dean.


  

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#25

Post by gespliesste »

Could be, we will never know for sure. What we find out when my friend the reel builder Wolfhard spoke with some of the last manufacturers of ebonite, some of them are in business more then 100 year,  when they see the marbleized side plates they say it is technical not possible to do this with ebonite. If it would be possible they would do it for him, but it is not. Also what most people don't know that this side plates are not made form a big piece of material they where made hot molded with pressure piece by piece. If I remember right they even found one of this old molds in a old reel shop. If it would be this easy to do this marbleized side plates in the Philbrook quality some one would come up with this in the last 50 years or so. That's maybe one of the reasons why this reels are so expensive, they can't be duplicated.

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#26

Post by reelsmith »

It can be done.

Follow the link below, click on "reels" and then click on "back/orange trout reel" and "tiger marbelized reeel". This current maker is producing his own marbleized hard rubber.

http://diamondbairdlureco.com/

Dean.

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#27

Post by gespliesste »

I would say this is not exactly what I mean with marbleized side plates in the Philbrook quality. There are marbleized colors in ebonite available like Cumberland for the pen  makers but not in the diameter you need for reel making and also it don't look even close to the Philbrook side plates. I think side plates that would look like marbleized Philbrooks had to be made in the hot molded  process with some kind of material and I don't see this coming soon. There is more to it than simple put two colors together and let them vulcanizing. Or why do you think we haven't seen this Philbrook quality material in the last ? years and not only for reel maker there would be other crafts who would like to get their hand on a material like this?
Last edited by gespliesste on 02/28/10 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

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afgantrout
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#28

Post by afgantrout »

Excuse me...what is 'mud'?

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turtledoc
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#29

Post by turtledoc »

Michael -

Click on the link provided in post #21......it is a pretty interesting article on various rubber like materials, including "Mud".

Mark B

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whatsleft2
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#30

Post by whatsleft2 »

ImageWell getting back to the original thread.....................I would say I'd just as soon not have any of my favorite reels re incarnated........they belong in the times they were made..thats why they appeal to me I guess...

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#31

Post by bulldog1935 »

didn't realize how this thread would extrapolate, but I did realize that the Philbrook & Paine was older than the invention of bakelite.

Simply, the pattern would be easiest to reproduce today in bakelite, which is a thermosetting resin - the heat and pressure together would flow the two resin grain colors to produce the swirl.
Image Shotguns and flyreels are jewelry for men

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#32

Post by gespliesste »

bulldog you are right we looked also in this direction but the problem is you have to find some one who still produce Bakelite, if you find some one who will do such a small amount for you it has to be done also in hot molded with pressure process. Bakelite can't be turned and polished on the lathe it has to be direct molded in the shape of the side plates. Also I'm not sure how Bakelite hold up when it gets wet.
Olaf

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#33

Post by bulldog1935 »

my Japanese tomato is holding up fine
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#34

Post by jz2 »

I would like a marbelized philbrook. can anyone loan me $11,000? I agree with gespliesste that the two contemporary marbelized reels, while nice, pale in comparison with the original (aesthetically). And its not such an old reel, but I wish someone was making an exact duplicate of the removable back robichaud. to my ear, it has the sweetest sounding click - and I prefer the "machined from a block of aluminum" construction method to the built up reels.

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#35

Post by Golfswithwolves »

A reel that I would like to see return to production is the Ross San Miguel. I think this one is an excellent reel.
Quid me anxias sum

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#36

Post by Holireels »

Found a new company that is now producing a new Ebonite product.  They are making primarily round stock right now, but "dependent" upon volume, would make sheet stock as well.  They are producing some good looking marbled materials with a bunch of different colors/patterns.  Like the Philbrooks reels, the patterns are never exactly the same coming from the mold.  I've attached a few pictures of their product.  You can see in these machined pieces that the pattern changes with each subsequent step it is machined. 

Image

Image


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#37

Post by gespliesste »

Yes this is the stuff what is used  for pen and Image making. It looks more like wood. Maybe it would look good on a reel but it will not look like the Philbrook side plates. It is simple not the same. This has some thing to do how they produce it not so much with the material it self. Take again a close look at Deans beauty here on the photo and compare it. I'm not saying that it would be impossible to duplicate the Philbrook side plates but it don't think so that it is some thing you can do in your kitchen and let do the research a specialist company would cost to much. The marked is possible not that big that you would get your investment back.Image
Last edited by gespliesste on 03/03/10 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

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#38

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

What a great question. I must think on this one... it's been a few years since posted...

ok - I thought long and hard for eight minutes on this - I would like to see this Stan Bogdan version of the CFO :

Image
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

Use the SEARCH for justification and reasoning.

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#39

Post by JohnMD1022 »

For day-in day-out trout fishing, it would be hard to pass on the Hardy JLH.

The CFOs and various Perfects (including the Bougles) would be strong contenders. Of course, they are in no need of reincarnation at present.

And with my luck, I’d probably be reincarnated as me.

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Re: Reincarnation

#40

Post by Brooks »

Charlton 8450, 8500 .8

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