CFO Prototype

[BKill]

I can barely contain my excitement. With the help of Yoshi Akiyama of the American Museum of Fly Fishing, I was able to obtain pictures of the original Orvis CFO prototype, which was built by Stan Bogdan. If you're a CFO fan, or Bogdan-ophile, you'll really appreciate the inner workings of this reel (not too much like the CFO we all know and love). I've no idea how to post the pictures here, so they'll be available on my blog in a couple of hours (have to bathe the triplets). I'd very much like to hear your thoughts after you've had a look.

Mike D.
http://therustyspinner.blogspot.com

Edit 5-7-10 by turtledoc to add the photos at Mike's request:

  

[BKill]

The triplets were patient (wife wasn't) ... pics are up.

[Marty]

very very cool!!!!! Always wondered what fit of idiocy prompted them to ruin both the sound and feel of what has to be on the short list of great reels with a disc drag..........

[DoctorFly]

See also the Lee Wulff Ultimate, whose limited production was in 1969 - before the CFO. http://classicflyrodforum.com?topic=11803 (and other threads).

regards,

Doc

[ibookje]

Nice!

Very interesting to see that the prototype and the production model are nearly identical.

[turtledoc]

Mike -

Thank you for tracking down those photos !  

I've often wondered what the original CFO was like and it was really great to see it in detail.  Did Mr. Akiyama happen to mention what diameter it is?   It looks like a 3 inch reel to me, but since Stan's own reels did not include a 3 inch model I'd be curious to know if they got him to make it 3 inch anyway, or if he made it as 2.75 inches or 3.25 inches from stock material on hand for his own reels.    It looks like that is an on / off drag button on the back vs. a drag adjustment?    Did Mr.  Akiyama  happen to mention anything about that?   In any case it is great to see the photos.

If you would like I would be happy to post photos of the LWU that preceded the CFO, and photo of some Bogdan experimental Steelhead reels that preceded the LWU and used a similar drag.

Mark B

[BKill]

Mark,

Anything you can add to this string is much appreciated. I'm curious when the changes to the check mechanism were made, and who made the decision. I'm guessing Hardy was contracted by Orvis to manufacture Bogdan's design, and Hardy's designers then tweaked that design to be more reminiscent of the LRH and therefore more rapidly produced. That really is only a guess though. I wonder if there are any existing iterations between this prototype, and the first reels sold at retail. Could there be a missing link? If so, where might it be? Hmmmmm ...

Mike D.
http://therustyspinner.blogspot.com

[turtledoc]

Mike -

I have no idea if other changes were made between the CFO prototype that you shared and the first reels off the line made by Hardy's, but it would be neat to know.

This is a shot of the innards of three Bogdan experimental Steelhead reels that I have.   At the time they were referred to as "dragless reels" and pre-date the Bogdan Steelhead and trout models by about 10 years.   On these early reels there was no noticable bias between RHW and LHW.

The top reel is circa 1962, lower left is circa 1963, and lower right is circa 1965.    The top and lower right reels are also fitted with external rim brakes that utilize a delrin pad mounted under an aluminum bar that when pressed applies drag to the spool.



Below is an innards shot from my old thread showing the final design of the Lee Wulff Ultimate that Stan designed for Lee Wullf who had it made by Farlow (actually J.S. Sharpes of Aberdeen), and retailed by Norm Thompson in the US.  The LWU is a 3.5 inch in diameter reel with a fixed click drag that is fairly stout and could be used for salmon.  There is some discrepency in exact dates for the LWU reels depending on the publication, but generally speaking they were first made in circa 1967-68 and were not made after about 1970 with total production between 80 and 200 total units (100 is the production number most often referenced).





While the check mechanism in experimental Bogdan dragless reels and the LWU are not identical to the drag of the CFO prototype, it's clear they were born in the same shop.

Mark B

[cdmoore]

So, I was re-reading a section from the AMFF's "A Treasury of Reels" re: the CFO prototype (pg 118) and came across a small puzzle. The book states: "[AMFF's italics] The CFO prototypes were done by Stanley Bogdan of Nashua, New Hampshire." Well known fact, right? But I never noticed the plural reference before. Does anyone have any information to suggest that Stan made more than one prototype of the CFO (other than the LWU prototype)? If so, please share.

Thanks,

Chris

[turtledoc]

Chris -

Interesting observation ! I'll admit I've read the description from the AMFF book several times and never picked up on the plural reference. It wouldn't surprise me a bit though if there were a few (3 or 4) examples of the CFO Prototype with each having slight variations. With the LWU Prototypes there were reportedly 3 or 4 examples that were 3.5 inches and 1 or 2 that were 4 inches. When I was looking at the photos of the CFO Proto again, I noticed something else that hadn't registered before. The horseshoe drag plate, pawl, and spring are located 180 degrees from the design of the early Bogdan Steelhead experimental / prototype reels and of the Bogdan LWU Prototype that I have. I can't believe I hadn't noticed that before !

Mark B

Stanley's Proto of what became the LWU:





Bogdan proto along with a Sharpe's made example of the final LWU badged for Farlows

[uwe]

Always been looking for one of Lee's reels thanks for putting them up and explaining it all.

[Lee Slikkers]

Fantastic... As a proud owner of two CFO's, this real just makes me love them even more. Thanks for sharing.

[cdmoore]

Great info, Mark. It would be pretty cool to come across another CFO prototype. On the other hand, it occurred to me reading your post that the LWU prototypes might actually BE the other CFO prototypes. I mean, they are pretty similar, no? Still can't believe you came across that LWU prototype with Stan's plate on it in that marked box. Truly an amazing find.

Chris

[Brian K. Shaffer]

There sure is a lot to read here - and these photos... thanks again Mike D. --> 11 years late
How are those triplets ?

I wonder why the foot got changed from Stan's original idea... on that silver reel... look at the holes in the feet.
The two for the screws are above and below - not off kilter on both sides at an angle like MANY of Hardy's modern reels.
Interesting.

[jhuskey]

If you look at the holes of the prototype, they were probably moved off-kilter to add a little more "meat" between the large center hole and the smaller screw holes. Don't look like much on the proto. Maybe just a lot easier for them to be drilled in-line by Stan, versus setting up for production in a factory setting. Cool thread, thanks for the CPR.

[Brian K. Shaffer]

The check of the Lee Wulff reel is featured above - and pretty much no where else.
How it differs from the original Stan CFO prototype is interesting.
Thank you again Mark.

[Hellmtflies]

Perfect!

I do wonder why they changed the tension bar from that to what they went to later. That tension bar remained on the Bogdan trout reels later on.

[cdmoore]

Brian, I believe that check on the LWU is present on some of the Bogdan trout reels.

Why the eventual CFO check didn't reflect what Bogdan was doing is pretty simple in my mind: Hardy. They had a well- and long-working check system, all the materials, tooling and training paid for and ready to go (including for inventory and repairs). Hardy and/or Orvis may also have simply liked the Hardy checkworks better. If they were going to lend their imprimatur, then I'm sure they also wanted to add their fingerprint and perhaps insisted on using their own system to seal the deal. Let's not forget that Orvis was doing a brisk business in the UK and Hardy was already very well known here and all over the world. Anyone looking at the internals didn't need to be told who was behind it. While Bogdan had a good reputation then and is even more famous now, Orvis surely needed to sell a relatively high volume and might well have chosen the "household name" for marketing purposes.

[cdmoore]

I am also going to state something heretical: in addition to potentially multiple iterations of the Bogdan prototypes that I mentioned earlier, there was an additional CFO prototype design from another source, and further, I'm not clear at all how these three reels and their makers may have influenced or possibly even interacted with each other in arriving at the final CFO design.

[JabaliHunter]

That check mechanism looks like it was inspired by the Allcock Coxon Aerial mechanism which I think appeared in the 1890s and is still rated as one of the finest for centrepin reels