Direction of S-Curve

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dave49
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Direction of S-Curve

#1

Post by dave49 »

The internal pawl determines whether a reel functions best as LHW or RHW, but if there is a S shaped crank, its curve may suggest the designer's original intent.  Is this true, and if so, was this reel intended to be RHW or LHW?
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Let us have response from those living both north and south of the equator. 
Last edited by dave49 on 12/30/19 20:57, edited 2 times in total.

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turtledoc
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Direction of S-Curve

#2

Post by turtledoc »

I think mostly it is a matter of personal taste / preference.......

And based on that, the reel in the photo in my mind is RHW.

I have always thought that the curve of the handle should lead the handle knob while winding so that a "reverse S" looks correct to me for RHW and a "true S" looks correct to me for LHW.

Mark B 

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#3

Post by Mataura mayfly »

RHW would be my belief for the original design intention.

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mer
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#4

Post by mer »

Do you guys fish with the reel on top or underneath the rod? To me the above picture needs to be stood on it's head to be in the proper orientation, before talking about reverse S or standard S. The knob is held on by a screw, perhaps the counterweight is also? Take the handle off the spindle, take the knob and counterweight off, flip handle over (top to bottom, not end for end) reinstall knob and counterweight.

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#5

Post by john8 »

I agree with Mark on the S handle orientation

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#6

Post by JR SPEY »

I remember talking to Joe Saracione about this very topic a number of years ago.  His response was that it really didn't matter and that all of his reels have an S-shape that's formed correctly to make a true S for Saracione.  He had someone return his reel after receiving it complaining that the S was going in the wrong direction for his direction of retrieve.  Joe responded that all Saracione reels have a true S shape regardless of which direction for which retrieve is set.  I assume, though I haven't checked, that even his newest models reflect that tradition.

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#7

Post by oldfishbrain »

This came up in a discussion about the reversibility of the Winston Vintage Reels. Some people claimed that they are not reversible but if one looks at the clicker mechanism they are obviously reversible except that the S curve of the winding handle is now the mirror image of original. I have a 5/6 labeled RHW and a 3/4 labeled LHW (the labels are on the original boxes). I converted the 3/4 to RHW. This is what they look like:

Image

3/4 on the right 5/6 on the left.
So the original orientation of the S handle is a mirror image of the letter S i.e. the winding knob follows.
And JR SPEY is correct. Here is a RHW Saracione RHW SCA:

Image

Handle is the mirror image of the RHW Winston. The winding knob leads.
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#8

Post by slw »

Surely, the final arbiters in this discussion should be the reel makers who first produced the S handle. ;-)
My 2/0 Zwarg is RHW only/non-reversible and has the knob leading the curve. Pictures I've seen of EVH reels appear to be the same.

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#9

Post by joners »

What "slw: said.  And, since this is purely speculation on my part until I read the final episode of this thread, and since "designer's original intent" is pure guess work (unless you know who and can ask), I would speculate that the "S" curve configuration was simply copied from the original, "S" curved cranked reel, and who knows if whether LHW or RHW was even considered.  I suspect some later-day reel maker decided he would fabricate the crank/handle opposite (reversed "S") for whatever reason, once again, who knows if that maker preferred LHW or RHW.  Like what Lamont Cranston (The Shadow) used to say..."Who know what evil lurks in the minds of men and the hearts of women"...or something like that.  I have some reels that are RHW only, and have no trouble using them when I want, even though I prefer LHW.
Cap'n BobImage    

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#10

Post by reelmaker »

joners wrote:What "slw: said.  And, since this is purely speculation on my part until I read the final episode of this thread, and since "designer's original intent" is pure guess work (unless you know who and can ask), I would speculate that the "S" curve configuration was simply copied from the original, "S" curved cranked reel, and who knows if whether LHW or RHW was even considered.  I suspect some later-day reel maker decided he would fabricate the crank/handle opposite (reversed "S") for whatever reason, once again, who knows if that maker preferred LHW or RHW.  Like what Lamont Cranston (The Shadow) used to say..."Who know what evil lurks in the minds of men and the hearts of women"...or something like that.  I have some reels that are RHW only, and have no trouble using them when I want, even though I prefer LHW.
Cap'n BobImage    

Amen....I have atleast a dozen EVH, Zwarg and Walker reels. All of them are made RHW and all of them have a handle as slw described so I would believe that which way the handle curves is rather a modern invention...
Last edited by reelmaker on 05/23/11 12:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Rookiespey
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#11

Post by Rookiespey »

Hard to say.  Two different Curves from two diff Makers.
An A&F Bogdan and a Maurice Noel.
Both right hand wind.

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Image

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#12

Post by findwolfhard »

Hello!
Vom Hofe used true-s for right hand and reversed for left, so reels could be identified easily.
Best regards Wolfhard

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#13

Post by dave49 »

Just so we don't get crossed on terminology: "True S" is the same as "knob leading (on retrieve)( for RHW)".
Dave

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#14

Post by stoneflyer »

I'll preface this post by admitting that I do not own an S-handled reel. That being said, is it possible that the direction of the curve impacts how readily the line might get wrapped around the handle? I would think that if a true S-shaped handle was turned for a RHW then there would be an increased likely hood of catching the fly line since the outer open end of the handle or counter weight is moving forward first?Just a thought.Adam

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#15

Post by Reeldane »

I always thought that the orientation of the "S" - was to avoid catching the line when retrieving. 
Iow a RH would be a reversed S and LH a true shaped S ?
HeinzImage 
Last edited by Reeldane on 05/24/11 02:34, edited 1 time in total.

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#16

Post by slw »

I've been fishing reels with serpentine (I prefer that term) cranks almost exclusively for 20 years and never had my line get caught under the crank regardless of  which way it curved.  Wrapped around the handle a few times just as with other reels (I cast right handed and use LHW reels), but never caught under the crank.

As best I know the serpentine crank was designed as a purely aesthetic device and serves no particular functional purpose. If someone has evidence to the contrary, it won't bother me a bit to have my mind changed.Image

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#17

Post by findwolfhard »

slw wrote:I've been fishing reels with serpentine (I prefer that term) cranks almost exclusively for 20 years and never had my line get caught under the crank regardless of  which way it curved.  Wrapped around the handle a few times just as with other reels (I cast right handed and use LHW reels), but never caught under the crank.

As best I know the serpentine crank was designed as a purely aesthetic device and serves no particular functional purpose. If someone has evidence to the contrary, it won't bother me a bit to have my mind changed.Image
Definitely seconded!
To my best knowledge there is little evidence regarding the origins of the "serpentine"-handle,- my own personal thesis is, that it might have originated in parts of 19th century machinery, where I had come across illustrations showing "s"-shaped spokes of large wheels, maybe to have larger centrifugal (or "inertia"?) masses in the movement,- but since there had been quite prominent esthetic features even in the most industrial machinery of that age,- we might finally end up again with the esthetic explanation.
Also there is a very sharply defined geometry with vom Hofe "serpentines" to give all his reels of all sizes the same characteristic look.
Best Wolfhard

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#18

Post by dave49 »

Wolfhard,
There was a good reason for curved spokes on old flywheels, crank wheels, and sheaves.  These were often made of cast iron, and as the rim cooled it would shrink.  Having spokes that could bend a little resulted in less stress imbedded in the part.
Interesting, but no relevance to fly reels.
Dave

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#19

Post by findwolfhard »

Dave, I didn`t think of that aspect.
Very interesting.
Form follows function, indeed!
Best Wolfhard.

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#20

Post by slw »

Given what little I know about the Industrial Revolution and it's attendant rise in the aesthetics of outdoor recreation, I can easily accept a connection between industrial design (that had a functional purpose) and aesthetic design carried over to recreational  equipment. But...

Just when I thought I might have gotten my head around this subject I opened A J Campbell's "Classic and Antique Fly-Fishing Tackle". In it I find this comment regarding EVH earliest (pre-1879) fly reels: "The front plate area was finely turned and sported a reverse-S handle, with the S curved the wrong way." If I read that correctly the first EVH reels with serpentine cranks had the curve leading the knob. Assuming that Campbell is correct, it must have been sometime after 1879 that EVH changed the crank. And...if all that's true then there is no design standard for us to cling to.

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