Faked Over Hardy Perfect

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restoration
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Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#1

Post by restoration »

This reel was sent to me from the UK and the owner asked me to look over it and then to tell him my thoughts about it. At first glance I thought it was a nice brass faced 3 inch wide drum Perfect but as soon as I took it out of the box it was clear it was one of the replica reels that had been worked over to make it look vintage. He is aware that it isn't right and he has sugested a posting should go up here so that other forum members would know what to look out for when buying a vintage Hardy reel.

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These are my observations and in no particular order.

The overstrap is made from brass, not bronze and it, as well as the adjuster, have well defined and sharp edges. Handle is made from a modern composite material with a latice structure. The cup has been altered and the knurled edge removed and the wire where it comes through the top of the handle is too wide.

Central locking screw has been altered to make it look old and the give away here is the width of the slot - it's too wide. The check wheel (toothed cog) is the modern unit supplied to Hardy's from a UK manufacturer. And note the modern style of bearing sleeve and ball race.

The caliper spring, supplied by a UK maker, is a standard unit and has not been ground, polished and blue tempered to suit a RHW reel.

I would say the black leading is a mixture of graphite and lacquer that has been brushed onto the surface of the frame and spool with Birchwood having been used on the winding plate. The black leading rubs off and will chip in the thicker areas if scratched with a finger nail.

Last of all the stamping, these are the modern versions used on genuine Hardy replica reels and should not be confused with the stampings on genuine vintage reels.

The re-working on this is reel is very poor, and I hope, with the help of the photos and my brief description, anyone looking to buy a similar reel will know what to look out for.

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ttrotter
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#2

Post by ttrotter »

This should be a very interesting thread and I hope others will join in with their thoughts, observation and experiences. But please, remember our Forum rules regarding civility, and that we cannot allow any names to be mentioned. This should be for educational purposes only for all of us to learn.

Since I am not a Hardy expert, my observations at this point are that Hardy's are certainly not the only reels that are being faked or altered and passed off as original. Other names would include Dingley as well as Bogdans and others.

I'm looking forward to a lively discussion here, restoration! Thanks for this post.
Kind regards,
Tom

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cdmoore
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#3

Post by cdmoore »

Good thread.

Since we are visual creatures--if anyone has the time, inclination, and collection of reels, it might be very useful to show photos of "correct" vintage reels, components, wear patterns, and stamping for comparison. A thousand words here might be worth a thousand dollars (or several).

It will aid in the educational aspect to which ttrotter has alluded. Also, not every member has the wherewithal to purchase all of the major Hardys (Dingley, etc.) resources--since none of them nor all of them together covers every piece of the puzzle--so any help here would be a nice service to those folks.

C

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bow river
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#4

Post by bow river »

great and thanks for posting this up for everyone to see

indeed a faked up reel :x , not the first time i seen or heard of it on that reel ,

i had a forum member come fishing from england , he brought over a old bougle that he was suckered into buying thinking he had the holly grail of a find , it was again a repro 3 inch bougle that was faked over to look like it was indeed old , edges roughed up , acid washed , what was the worst it had 3 hardy logo stamps on the back side ,

now after showing him the true old logos from jess millers book and the logos from some of my old correct brass face reels in my collection , he knew he had been taken , i just happen to have at the time a repro brass face perfect like the one that you just posted above john , the 3 logos on that bougle reel was the same as on repro BFP , a dead give away ,

sad part is he never knew or seen old correct reels with logos or did much homework on it , jumped in and thought he got a deal , always always be buyer beware

'''NOW'''
the big big question , how did a repro bougle reel get them logo's on it , hardys would own and have them stamps , after a bunch of phone calls and talking with some people in the know and a little detective work , this is not the first time it has happen , stamps being added onto reels to fake em up ,

SO , ask yourself ,
who would be able to get there hands on a set of them logo's ?????? , someone at hardys , maybe someone had a set made up , those in the know or loop in the uk know darn well but don't like to talk about it

so i ask myself WHY , i think it's because they don't want word out about faking reels , could bring the value down on some good reels , i cant figure that one out

on a last note , also some bougle's floating around that are repro's that have been faked over by acid washing and then polishing them up , some forum members have seen them

i will try to post a few pictures of the true correct logos for these old reels when i get a chance

again thanks for bringing this up and showing , might save a member from getting stung
Come book a fishing trip with me on Canada's best trout river , the world famous Bow River , also other fine mountain rivers , I collect old Hardys , Dingleys, Youngs , also buy sell & trade

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ttrotter
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#5

Post by ttrotter »

Rich, speaking of Bougles, remember that batch of the Ltd. Ed.'s that were stolen some years back! SN's filed off? I'm sure some of those have been "antiqued" and passed off as originals.
Buyer beware, indeed.
Tom

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Silver Doctor
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#6

Post by Silver Doctor »

That is excellent, thanks for posting, I wish more of these fakes where posted here to help the community.

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bow river
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#7

Post by bow river »

ttrotter wrote:Rich, speaking of Bougles, remember that batch of the Ltd. Ed.'s that were stolen some years back! SN's filed off? I'm sure some of those have been "antiqued" and passed off as originals.
Buyer beware, indeed.
Tom
you are 100% correct Tom ,

on the reel that john posted above , in truth that is about as crappy a job of faking a reel that i have seen , some of them are really done up good , i have not seen it but i also heard of a solid brass hardy reel that was built and faked over really good , with stamps or logo's , seems it was in a auction house and some poor lad bought it , found out after he was fooled , i think he had a few that were faked over , i heard he ended up getting a really good hardy person to get his opinion on the reels he got and what was correct or faked ,

i did talk with a forum member in the uk a couple years ago that also got stung on a few reels and most were from a auction house , in my opinion and many others , allot of the auction houses know darn well or they should know , yet they turn a eye as they get money from the sales %% , from the buyer and the seller , think about it , they get 40% most of the times off the items ,

heck it was like 8 years ago when i got burnt on that faked up dingley with the hardy stamped on the backside , it's on the forum here somewhere , i learned a very very good lesson the hard way ,
Come book a fishing trip with me on Canada's best trout river , the world famous Bow River , also other fine mountain rivers , I collect old Hardys , Dingleys, Youngs , also buy sell & trade

PYochim
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#8

Post by PYochim »

The knock off artists are pretty good. My son picked up a copy of an Omega Constellation for $20.00 at a bazaar in Afghanistan. I put it next to my original. Pretty good copy.

Thanks for the blow by blow description of this fake. Only reaffirms why I don't delve into that particular market.

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enigma309
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#9

Post by enigma309 »

Get scrolling (and now I have doubts about mine?)(or Admin move side by side?)

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I'm so pleased to see this thread ;)

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bow river
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#10

Post by bow river »

enigma309 wrote:Get scrolling (and now I have doubts about mine?)(or Admin move side by side?)

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I'm so pleased to see this thread ;)

X2
you my friend don't have to worry about that reel being correct , one just has to look at it ,

and like you , i'm also please this topic has come up , it's about time this all comes to light ,
Come book a fishing trip with me on Canada's best trout river , the world famous Bow River , also other fine mountain rivers , I collect old Hardys , Dingleys, Youngs , also buy sell & trade

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Marty
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#11

Post by Marty »

x3 glad to see this post. The thieves that do these things can't take advantage of you if you're well informed and observant. Sharing pictures as above is a terrefic way to spread the word!!!!! I was taken some years back..... as the prices of good reels continue to go up I expect we'll see more of this ....
Marty's Rules of Fishing #7. Fishing only with store bought flies is like trying to talk to a pretty girl through an interpreter it works sort of …it will work far better if you learn the language and tie your own flies…more satisfying and more effective.

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lairg
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#12

Post by lairg »

who would be able to get there hands on a set of them logos. very good question bow river, and a very good report.

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salmonfly
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#13

Post by salmonfly »

Thank for the information John, this is why you should always do your homework and deal with a referable dealer/dealers.

When buying from a reputable dealer you will always pay more money for your reels but you will also get what you pay for.
My 2 cents.
**** I ‘LL BE BACK IN 5, GONE FISHING, YOU JUST KEEP READING THIS EVERY 5 MINUTE !! ****
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Silver and Gold
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#14

Post by Silver and Gold »

Over the years we have all had dealings with many dealers, some good and some bad.
It is always beyond me as to why we can not have a feedback type thread which can post our vast experiences for others to see in order for them to make informed decisions.
Why should people get burned by the few rouges who scam and con the hard working people of their money.

Most of us have views and thoughts on this subject so why not make it open for all to see.
Name and shame would be the way to avoid these type of threads.

Regards

Andy

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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#15

Post by restoration »

moonshine2

Thank you for the prompt.

I was on the very edge of naming and shaming with evidence to back my claim. But hey ho - time to pull back and trust in the integrity of members to stay calm and wait for the smoke to clear and for the barriers protecting the faker to fall.

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kwd81
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#16

Post by kwd81 »

I know this is an old thread but new to me since I just joined the board a few months ago.
It’s just amazing the extremes people will go through just to call or sell something as vintage. The little details as explained could fool the average person if they don’t know what to look for or how to authenticate an item.
Good piece of information and thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Keven
kwd81 >-<(((((*>

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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#17

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I guess I could look up the answer to my question, but ....... What is the difference in price and how much trouble is it to fake an old reel from a new one. Why is it worth it to do it? Jay Edwards

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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#18

Post by solitaryangle »

The difference is thousands of dollars potentially, depending on the rarity of the reel. Well worth it for the many crooks out there.

Gary

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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#19

Post by restoration »

I have had several PM's and emails asking for the name of the culprit responsible for producing these non original reels and as much as I would like to tell everyone, I cannot at the moment.

I have entered into a non-disclosure agreement with a very reliable member of this forum and I am unable to break the trust that has been extended to me. I have spent two years looking into this issue and I have passed on all of the compelling evidance I have onto this person. I ask the members to wait a little longer and trust that there will be full transparancy and exposure at a later time.

John Mackenzie

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czkid
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#20

Post by czkid »

John has done a magnificent job of illustrating just what can and has been done to fake reels... don't be too surprised to see some rods go down the same road as prices once again start to increase. But, as John says, there is an agreement that we will not "out" the bad guys publicly. Just like we won't "out" rod makers we have had problems with over the years... it's just not our job nor is it Kosher.

So just thank John for a job well done and realize just how much work it must have been.

Thanks again John!!!

Ralph

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