Faked Over Hardy Perfect

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oddsnrods
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#41

Post by oddsnrods »

Alnwick.

I rest my case.

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bow river
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#42

Post by bow river »

PYochim wrote:Any guess as to where the fake reel originated?
That reel came from hardy and was in a set of 3 , sizes were 2 5/8, 3 inch, and 3 1/4 in leather case , some were sold as single reels , I think like 500 made in block leather cases

That reel that John posted that was faked over , stayed in the Uk , England , it was in the hands of someone just waiting for a buyer to come along that didn't know much about reels and could be suckered into thinking it was a true old 1902 reel and bingo , say good bye to your hard earned money ,

With some , they just think its so funny when they rip those off , I had one crooked dealer tell me in his own words "people should know what they buying"

And last , I can assure you that allot of people in the Uk have seen and read this posting , they talking about it , even them crooked sellers read this forum , and i know this for a fact , will it change anything , in my opinion , no , as allot of people might have a reel or two that's not correct themselves , someday it will all come up and maybe them really rich collectors who have the money will find out that they been duped on a bunch of reels , only they will have the funds to sue them crooks

Till then gentleman , always ask for second set of eyes , do lots homework , and ask questions , spread the word and try to help fellow forum members from getting ripped off ,

We can't say names on here , that's what pm"s and private emails are for ,
And those in the know in England should step up and make em stop ,
Come book a fishing trip with me on Canada's best trout river , the world famous Bow River , also other fine mountain rivers , I collect old Hardys , Dingleys, Youngs , also buy sell & trade

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flyslinger
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#43

Post by flyslinger »

Richard, I just sold a 3 1/4" brass faced reproduction. I may be totally mistaken, but I was told that all told 500 of them were made in that size. 250 went into the boxed sets of 3 reels, and 250 were sold individually in leather Hardy cases. the one I sold had the makers initials stamped inside and the number of that particular reel. In this case JWS and 244. One difference I see is the center part of the brass face is raised on the reel I sold and flat on the reel in the pictures john originally posted. Interesting!
Please note the grid looking pattern on the faux ivory handle. No way that can be made to look old, but I can see where the finish could be buffed or partially sanded off, the reel blackened with birchwood Casey's and the brass blackened chemically to fake an original. The con man could then at least double, if not triple his investment.
Richard is absolutely right, if you see a deal that is too good to be true, contact another collector that you trust for a second opinion before you pull the trigger and make a huge mistake. I recently saved myself a bundle by asking our resident Paul Young rod expert about a rod, before I tried to buy it. Talk about a near tragedy!

Dirk

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restoration
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#44

Post by restoration »

There are a lot of questions being raised on this thread and it’s a little difficult to know where to begin.

First, the reel in my OP was sold, by a UK based dealer, as an 1896 BFP. As we’ve seen, the logos are modern ones and other details don’t add up – ergo – someone changed it to look older

There has been much speculation about who is involved in producing these faked over reels (and this is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg).There are many people in the UK, and elsewhere, who know the details about these men, however without direct evidence or proof it was always going to be difficult to bring these people to book. A lot of people have been shouting about this evil practice for a long time but no one had taken the time to piece the jigsaw puzzle together. Those who have been cheated have had the priority of trying to get their money back. As for the seller of these reels, that’s another story and I believe this is being dealt with by other parties.

I think most serious UK collectors know who the fraudsters are. But serious collectors are not their intended victims. They target the new collector, the guy who has heard about investment value and reads this forum, and others, which unconsciously promote “collecting”

As one experienced collector told me - the seller is a personable sort of chap who can hold a conversation; his answer to charges of selling dodgy reels is to shrug his shoulders and say “Hey, I’m a dealer”.
When asked about the man who does the faking this collector said “It’s best to take an instant dislike to him, it saves time”

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bow river
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#45

Post by bow river »

flyslinger wrote:Richard, I just sold a 3 1/4" brass faced reproduction. I may be totally mistaken, but I was told that all told 500 of them were made in that size. 250 went into the boxed sets of 3 reels, and 250 were sold individually in leather Hardy cases. the one I sold had the makers initials stamped inside and the number of that particular reel. In this case JWS and 244. One difference I see is the center part of the brass face is raised on the reel I sold and flat on the reel in the pictures john originally posted. Interesting!
Please note the grid looking pattern on the faux ivory handle. No way that can be made to look old, but I can see where the finish could be buffed or partially sanded off, the reel blackened with birchwood Casey's and the brass blackened chemically to fake an original. The con man could then at least double, if not triple his investment.
Richard is absolutely right, if you see a deal that is too good to be true, contact another collector that you trust for a second opinion before you pull the trigger and make a huge mistake. I recently saved myself a bundle by asking our resident Paul Young rod expert about a rod, before I tried to buy it. Talk about a near tragedy!

Dirk

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Dirk
Thanks first for posting them pictures , I stand corrected on the numbers that were made , not sure why I thought it was 500 , I don't have any repos anymore and wish I did as I never noticed that raised hub in the centre , another tell that it's fake and that also shows you what the faker who did the work had to do , that part he did a good job , the rest of his work was the shitz , hope he"s reading this which I'm pretty sure he is

Value wise - you can find a used 3 inch repr for around $750 to $900 , even better if you take your time and its not mint ,

After the stripping it down and doing this work to fool someone , the seller could get as high as $3500 or even more

A good correct 3 inch with all 3 logos , last one I seen that was good fetched over $4500 plus 20% extra to the auction house

That dingley that I ended up getting stung on was tried to slip into a auction house , they knew it was faked as the seller is well known to them , so they wouldn't allow it

I'm sure this reel John posted would never of gotten into a good auction house these days , things are changing , and some really really good collectors now looking over stuff for the auction houses ,
Come book a fishing trip with me on Canada's best trout river , the world famous Bow River , also other fine mountain rivers , I collect old Hardys , Dingleys, Youngs , also buy sell & trade

restoration
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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#46

Post by restoration »

There has been speculation that a so-called “friendly Hardy worker” was involved in this very sad situation. I am confident no such person ever existed and this type of gossip is damaging not only to the Hardy collector community but to Hardy & Grey’s as well. Hardy & Grey’s have been going through a very tough time of late with the departure of its Managing Director and far worse, a very high percentage of it loyal and very hard working work force. I have visited Hardy and Grey’s several times and I found the staff there to be totally committed to the company and the Hardy name.

I do know how these reels and countless spare parts got out of Hardy & Grey’s but if I disclose this here I will be breaching the general rules on this forum and for this reason I won’t comment. I want this thread to continue and if I breach the non-disclosure agreement I have signed up for then this thread would most probably be deleted. What I can say is that unfinished reels (ex- stock) spares and other items were not stolen or passed out through the back door. They were sold to a private party, the reels modified by the faker and then drip fed into the market.

This may raise questions about Hardy & Grey’s accountability and responsibility in relation to these faked over reels and other dubious reels produced by the same duo. I can only speculate here and assure everyone I believe the current workforce had no control over what happened in the past and that no one, still at Hardy & Grey’s, has enough evidence or information to confront the bad guys. Hardy & Grey’s are doing all they can to survive under difficult trading conditions and all of the company’s energy will be going into securing a positive and brighter future. Right now this is a company that needs to be supported. It has a fantastic brand name and it has generated a loyal group of followers and most of all, for me, given an enormous amount of pleasure through the amazing products it has made in the past and hopefully in the future.

My guess is this issue is a vulgar annoyance to the business and one that should be treated with disdain, a bit like a bad smell; one would want it to go away.

I understand from many sources that years ago Hardy and Grey’s used an outsider, known to a company director, to help build a limited amount reels. The parts + stamps were given to that party and on the so called completion of his task, which was sub standard, he was asked to return the finished reels, any remaining unused parts and the stamps to Hardy & Grey’s. Sadly it was several months before the stamps were given back, despite countless demands from the company for the return of their property. What happened with the stamps during this time is anyone’s guess.

Rest assured there are a lot of people in Great Britain doing all they can to stamp out this terrible situation. These efforts have extended into the auction houses as well and I trust that in time this whole mess will be resolved and the unpleasant stain that has impacted the market, collectors and Hardy & Grey’s will disappear for good.

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Re: Faked Over Hardy Perfect

#47

Post by Whitefish Press »

As this thread has become difficult to moderate and threatens to stretch beyond the original purpose of the first post, I am closing this thread to future posts except those that the Original Poster would like to add. Thanks for those who followed the rules, and to the OP and others who provided important information.

-- Dr. Todd

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