Round Tip Rooster Hackle

[billems]

Rooster hackle wings are the was to tie the Adams correctly. Hen tips are mostly black, and turn completely black when they're wet.
But genetic capes nowadays all have pointed tips. I think the only grizzly rooster tips that are rounded would have to come from barnyard
birds. Hmmm. Maybe I'll have to visit a farmer... Anybody open for suggestions?

[Perry Palin]

Bill, what sizes are you tying? Let me look around. I have some old necks.

Some of the genetic hen necks are okay nowadays, but the barring is usually kind of muddy compared to a rooster.

A poor substitute is to take pointed tip feathers and trim to shape with your scissors or use a hackle burner on them. It takes good light, good eyes, and a steady hand to get them right.

[narcodog]

Look at Whiting 4B hackle round tips.

[Norm Frechette]

i used grizzly hen on this adams

[billems]

I have hen tips, which are round and wide. But I'm talking rooster hackle. Hen gets wet and turns black. Rooster tips reflect in the sunlight, float higher, and make the pattern easy to see. I know most prefer the parachute adams. I have another parachute pattern I prefer over the adams; so I stick with the old pattern. Also: I was recently in Lansboro, MN, and the shop owner had an adams tied by Mr. Halliday. Rooster hackle tips.

[mer]

Rooster hackle is the traditional/original in a lot of flies. The problem is that as we got better and better hackles, we lost stuff. Hackle tips suitable for wings, spade hackles are a couple that come to mind.
If you look at "lower" grade genetics you may find more. Whiting Hebert-Miner I think has more that standard Whiting. As noted above Whiting 4B are supposed to be purpose-bred.
Sometimes if you go through some old stock at a shop you can find something more suitable.
I have also seen some modern genetic hen that is almost as good as older "rooster dry fly hackle" and yes, the modern genetic hen looks a lot like older rooster.

[Norm Frechette]

rooster tips

[putemback]

Norm, your flies are truly artful. The photos ain’t bad either. Luv ‘em.

[mer]

Norm, your two samples I think demonstrate what the OP was talking about. ( and I agree with putemback ).

Now, we get to the question of "does it matter to the fish?" and it's been written about many times "a fly has to catch a fisherman first before it ever catches a fish".

I don't have any references handy, but I'd be interested in seeing a photo of a Dette/Darby/Cross/name your favorite here fly from "back in the day" that used hackle tips for wings. Basically "pre-genetic hackle"; were the feathers the coloring of Norm's second fly (post 7) but the shape of the first (post 4)?

[billems]

I just checked out Mike Vallas' "Favorite Flies for the Catskills. "Many tiers of my era still use grizzly rooster hackle point tips. Virtually every early fly tier, not only Catskill tiers, used rooster hackle point tips on dry flies. The change over to hen hackle tips for winging happened in the late 1970s, when genetic hackle became available. The nicely rounded rooster hackle tips vanished after selective breeding."

[Norm Frechette]

round tip rooster hackle from a metz magnum rooster neck

[mer]

Thanks Norm. Recent stock or "had it for a while"?
What size fly does that measure out to if used for hackle?
I'm asking because looks like the barb length is pretty long and the one on the right looks usable for a good distance (web).

I don't know about anyone else here, but looking at critters around the yard, birds, ducks, nature shows, wife says "Look how pretty" and I think "how many flies can I get out of that."

[ted patlen]

as for back in the day...in the 30's-40's for example , well before genetic breeding the majority of tyers had necks from China and India beside the backyard birds...look for those necks...or double the wings

[Norm Frechette]

mer

new stock

size is dependent on where the feathers are plucked

the two shown are close to the birds head are and are not too far apart from each other

are you looking to tie museum quality flies?

[mer]

mer

new stock

size is dependent on where the feathers are plucked

the two shown are close to the birds head are and are not too far apart from each other

are you looking to tie museum quality flies?

Thanks Norm. Nope I just tie flies for me to fish and give away once in a while.
I was more looking at size of your thumb compared to the barb length of those 2 specific feathers and
the amount of web in them.
I am simply impressed by those 2 specific feathers, that's all.

[carlz]

I am simply impressed by those 2 specific feathers, that's all.

I think it's the skill of the person selecting the neck and the patience in selecting the feathers from the neck.

Given the same neck, I could select really ugly feathers.

[billems]

Ed Van Put is the Adams master. Some 20 years ago, I wrote him a letter asking for a sample of his adams to use as a model. He didn't have hen wings, though they might've been from a saddle.