CDC

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

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billems
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CDC

#1

Post by billems »

My local river is hatching little black stoneflies. The flies are black, the wings are a light dun color. I tied some flies with a black dubbed body, a black hackle at the front and light dun wings of CDC feathers--good ones from Natures Spirit. I could not keep those flies floating. The wings would soak up water, and they sank like stones. I'd dry the fly out on my amadou patch, but it didn't help. I know that I should've had the Frogs Fanny desiccant with me. But I would've had to treat the fly every three casts. CDC is great stuff. But give me some suggestions here. I'm not feeling CDC at this point.

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ibookje
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Re: CDC

#2

Post by ibookje »

I personally don't think CDC on a fly as a 'floatation device' is the way to go. Yes the first casts fresh from the fly box they float great, but after a while and certainly after catching a fish the fibers tend to matt resulting poor floating fly. As a material to add movement to a fly, it's one of the best.
Dyed CDC have less natural oil on the fibers.

My suggestion would be use deer or elk hair for the right silhouette as well as floating the fly and add a few turns (like just one or two turns) of CDC for adding movement to your fly.

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Bucktrout
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Re: CDC

#3

Post by Bucktrout »

When I fish CDC it is common for me to use a good bit of desiccant to help with floatation. And, I typically use CDC on flatter water as it’s easier to keep the CDC floating longer between using desiccant.

Not sure if you were using natural CDC versus dyed. It does seem that the natural floats a little better.

Eric
Last edited by Bucktrout on 03/23/21 19:09, edited 1 time in total.

WiFlyFisher
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Re: CDC

#4

Post by WiFlyFisher »

We have several early Spring stonefly species I fish, including the little black stoneflies.

Early Spring stonefly nymphs crawl out onto the banks, shelf ice, etc. to hatch. I use a small, simple black stonefly nymph pattern in the shallows for that. I also have good luck with a black or purple silk body with a starling soft hackle in a size #18. If you want see: https://wiflyfisher.com/Little-Black-Stonefly-Hatch.asp.

Image

For a dry fly that I am going to twitch on the surface to imitate a fluttering ovipositing stonefly when the trout are looking up I use a rooster hackle palmered body with a light colored deer hair wing. I have not found wing color matters for the dry pattern, so I use light colored deer hair because it is easier for me to see. Size, silhouette and your presentation are what I find most important.

That is my experience with them.

billems
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Re: CDC

#5

Post by billems »

WiFlyFisher wrote:
03/23/21 19:01
We have several early Spring stonefly species I fish, including the little black stoneflies.

Early Spring stonefly nymphs crawl out onto the banks, shelf ice, etc. to hatch. I use a small, simple black stonefly nymph pattern in the shallows for that. I also have good luck with a black or purple silk body with a starling soft hackle in a size #18. If you want see: https://wiflyfisher.com/Little-Black-Stonefly-Hatch.asp.

Image

For a dry fly that I am going to twitch on the surface to imitate a fluttering ovipositing stonefly when the trout are looking up I use a rooster hackle palmered body with a light colored deer hair wing. I have not found wing color matters for the dry pattern, so I use light colored deer hair because it is easier for me to see. Size, silhouette and your presentation are what I find most important.

That is my experience with them.
Thanks John. Advice taken.

snorider
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Re: CDC

#6

Post by snorider »

I use magic floatant on cdc which really helps, and powder to dry it. For wings on terrestrials cdc is best used as an underwing; would be nice on that little stone fly John. I see CDC as a material that imparts motion to flies not buoyancy.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it. T.R.

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mer
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Re: CDC

#7

Post by mer »

snorider wrote:
03/23/21 23:13
I use magic floatant on cdc which really helps, and powder to dry it. For wings on terrestrials cdc is best used as an underwing; would be nice on that little stone fly John. I see CDC as a material that imparts motion to flies not buoyancy.
The last sentence here is the key (at least in my experience), unless you are tying very small flies or using lots of CDC.

WiFlyFisher
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Re: CDC

#8

Post by WiFlyFisher »

I definitely agree with motion as a stimuli to the trout that it is life and possibly food.

Another material often overlooked are starling feathers. I find starling feathers add subtle movement to soft hackle wet flies. Case in point, the first nice trout for 2021 for me was on a purple & starling, soft hackle wet fly near the head of a pool, cast up and across.

Image

You can see the purple & starling wet fly next to the "12". The only reason I pulled him out of the water there was something in the back of his mouth when I got him in the net. It appeared to be a couple of large stick caddis, case and all.

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Caneghost
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Re: CDC

#9

Post by Caneghost »

The style of CDC tie depends upon the water you are fishing. On the flat water of the Cumberland Valley spring creeks I had a lot of good fishing with a CDC winged stonefly with a sparse hackle collar. With more current or on large windswept rivers on windy days the low floater is very tough to keep on top. A palmered hackle over the body is very beneficial. The CDC wings offer the movement as these flies often buzz on and near the surface. Grizzly hackle seems to help along with the movement of the CDC wings. Go smaller on the hackle, with barb lengths closer to hook gap size, so a size 20 hackle on a size 18 fly. I like grizzly dyed dun for palmered flies, though not too darkly dyed. Frog's Fanny, Loon Dust and other brush on powdered floatants are the way to go to keep the wings dry and fluffed up and moving!


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Bee
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Re: CDC

#10

Post by Bee »

I have used use CDC extensively for decades for dries, large and small, from Ranch G D/PMD/B D emergers and duns to S E US tailwater small caddis and sulphur patterns . Those CDC pattern are the ones in which I have the most confidence when approaching the most technical and picky fish.

I choose straight CDC fibers of the same length taken from each side of a feather and clump together enough of those straight , same length, individual feather fibers to form to the wing, emerger hump, or whatever for the particular fly I am tying. I have many wild duck plucked cdc feathers and a variety of shades of color, and I think the wild duck fibers have superior floating qualities compared to the packaged supplier cdc materials.

I think using whole stemmed CDC feathers for wings/ humps does not provide the floating qualities of the individual fibers removed from the stem and formed in to a wing /hump. I do not use any cdc tool. Simply grasp the full cdc feather in a manner that attempts to leave all the outer tips of the fiber on that side of the stem at the same length , cut from stem, leaving tips natural, roll slightly and repeat with other stem fibers until I get the mass of fibers needed . This way all stems tips are same length ( hopefully) and I think that makes a huge difference in the appearance /fishiness of the finished fly rather than sling on random length fibers and subsequently cutting individual fibers tips back to length after the wing is formed. JME

I use the fumed silica powders extensively and solely on the cdc fibers in the fly. I might add other flotant (liquid or Dab) to a body part but never to the cdc. I carry same piece of paper towel in a pocket to dry the fiber after a fish slimes it. Or dry with squeeze on a pure cotton fishing shirt part. Then reapply silica powder and have at it again.
Last edited by Bee on 03/24/21 13:05, edited 3 times in total.

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Barleywine
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Re: CDC

#11

Post by Barleywine »

I've found a tiny amount of Loon Lochsa to work great on CDC. Before Lochsa, I had problems keeping CDC flies floating, and everything that I tried didn't work to satisfaction. I blotted the flies dry, dusted with fumed silica, and even tried the Ray Bergman white gas and paraffin mixture. The Bergman formula kept the CDC dry and riding high, but it seemed to reduce the effectiveness of the CDC. A very small dab of Lochsa rubbed through the feathers keeps the fly usable for several fish.

–Chuck

narcodog
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Re: CDC

#12

Post by narcodog »

I have used CDC and deer a Hans Weilanman fly and it is my go to fly. I use Frogs Fanny and Lochsa ,occasionally, and I have no problem with them floating. In fact I was fishing last week and my fishing partner said how do you keep your flies floating for so long, they just do. The only other thing I do is that I dry them with a Majic Cloth then apply the floatant.

Over the years I have tyed thousands of these flies and give a heap away in every color scheme. The black flies tyed in 16 and 18 do well for winter black stone and dark caddis.

I use Trout Hunter CDC almost exclusively, the big distributors I stay away from. Swiss CDC is to large unless your using a Majic tool devise, IMO.

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creakycane
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Re: CDC

#13

Post by creakycane »

For the little black stones, I like the little black stone that Chauncey Lively tied if I need a very accurate pattern. if the flies are skittering around, I find a small fly with a turn of hackle at the head and a deerhair trailing wing to be perfect. Used a couple a few weeks ago in VA. Also, Deren's Stone Fore and Aft in appropriate colors skitters well, is fun to fish and just a great searching pattern.

Bill Terry
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Re: CDC

#14

Post by Bill Terry »

I dress my CDC flies with CDC oil from Trout Hunter.
Ad piscatoribus sunt omnes res secundi.

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Caneghost
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Re: CDC

#15

Post by Caneghost »

How do you like your results with the TH oil? I have a bottle but have yet to use it. One more thing in the damned vest. I have used Tiemco Magic Floatant and Loon Lochsa with good results, but you must be very sparing with it. I hold the CDC wing tightly between my clean dry fingers while working a touch of it into the fly's body and tail. When there is just a faint amount left on my fingers, I then gently pinch the wing clump once or twice to put a little on. Wing won't mat if you are sparing enough with the floatant, and the fly floats longer between dryings.
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PYochim
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Re: CDC

#16

Post by PYochim »

Aside from the CDC & Elk, I don't have much use for the stuff.

billems
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Re: CDC

#17

Post by billems »

Bee wrote:
03/24/21 07:25
I have used use CDC extensively for decades for dries, large and small, from Ranch G D/PMD/B D emergers and duns to S E US tailwater small caddis and sulphur patterns . Those CDC pattern are the ones in which I have the most confidence when approaching the most technical and picky fish.

I choose straight CDC fibers of the same length taken from each side of a feather and clump together enough of those straight , same length, individual feather fibers to form to the wing, emerger hump, or whatever for the particular fly I am tying. I have many wild duck plucked cdc feathers and a variety of shades of color, and I think the wild duck fibers have superior floating qualities compared to the packaged supplier cdc materials.

I think using whole stemmed CDC feathers for wings/ humps does not provide the floating qualities of the individual fibers removed from the stem and formed in to a wing /hump. I do not use any cdc tool. Simply grasp the full cdc feather in a manner that attempts to leave all the outer tips of the fiber on that side of the stem at the same length , cut from stem, leaving tips natural, roll slightly and repeat with other stem fibers until I get the mass of fibers needed . This way all stems tips are same length ( hopefully) and I think that makes a huge difference in the appearance /fishiness of the finished fly rather than sling on random length fibers and subsequently cutting individual fibers tips back to length after the wing is formed. JME

I use the fumed silica powders extensively and solely on the cdc fibers in the fly. I might add other flotant (liquid or Dab) to a body part but never to the cdc. I carry same piece of paper towel in a pocket to dry the fiber after a fish slimes it. Or dry with squeeze on a pure cotton fishing shirt part. Then reapply silica powder and have at it again.
Thanks for your advice. I know well the effectiveness of cdc, and intend to keep tying with it.

Bill Terry
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Re: CDC

#18

Post by Bill Terry »

Caneghost wrote:
03/28/21 07:07
How do you like your results with the TH oil?
I'm happy with it. I haven't run an objective test to compare it with other floatants. As with any floatant, if you catch a fish you'll have to dry the fly out and reapply it.
Ad piscatoribus sunt omnes res secundi.

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