Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

Moderators: Ken M 44, joaniebo

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#1

Post by WiFlyFisher »

When the Early Brown Stoneflies (Strophopteryx fasciata) come back onto the river their wings are in constant motion frantically fluttering downstream while ovipositing the eggs into the river. All this commotion teases trout to sporadically rise to devour these early season bugs.

Image

Usually, I fish a elk hair caddis in sizes #14 or #12, casting upstream and across twitching the fly as it drifts down towards me. This year for the fun of it I decided to try a variant dry fly. I know there is a big difference between the down wing of an elk hair caddis pattern and a variant dry fly pattern. But I keep thinking the trigger for the trout is the frantic fluttering of the stonefly's wings with feet barely touching the surface, not the shape/silhouette of the stonefly.

The other day a nice trout above me rose twice eating fluttering stoneflies as they drifted over his holding position. I quickly snipped off my elk hair caddis pattern and tied on my variant dry fly and casted it upstream above the trout. After twitching it twice the 17" trout took it soundly. The variant dry fly fooled two more wild beauties before I had to snip the tippet because the variant dry fly (barbless) was lodged deep in the last brown trout's mouth.

The last day before heading back south to get my second Pfizer shot with the Apple chip, I had tied three more variants the previous evening. I caught 12 trout that afternoon and I missed several others. All I used that afternoon were two of the three variants with my Perfectionist bamboo fly rod, a 12 foot leader with a 5x tippet.

I know this is an age-old topic talked about many times between classic dry fly fishermen over the years... Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

John

redietz
Master Guide
Posts: 917
Joined: 10/26/09 19:00
Location: Central Maryland

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#2

Post by redietz »

In my opinion, the only good having wings on hackled dries does is to make them easier to me to see. There's always hackle there that can be interpreted as wings if the fish wants to see wings, or ignored if it doesn't.

Perry Palin
Master Guide
Posts: 408
Joined: 12/07/12 13:34

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#3

Post by Perry Palin »

Do wings really matter on hackled dries? I want the answer to be no, because I like simple ties. I has a similar stonefly experience on a northern WI freestone stream last week and I caught some fish on a wingless variant. The fish in this stream work hard to make a living, they don't see flush hatches of anything, and they don't see a lot of fishermen.

On the other hand, I have encountered days when the fish will not take a hackled fly or even one with Catskill style wood duck wings, but will come right up for a burnt wing thorax pattern similar to Marinaro's cut wing duns. Usually this has been in slower flows where the fish have a chance to look over the fly, and on cool days when the duns ride the current for a bit before taking to the air. This has happened most often with BWO's in size 18 or so.

User avatar
Seabowisha Salmo T
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1330
Joined: 01/15/07 19:00

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#4

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello, they really do matter on fanwings. the wings cause the leader to twist. if the wind is strong enough you can get a couple of unwinds when the fly hits the water. drives the fish crazy!!! :rollin

upstate
Master Guide
Posts: 490
Joined: 12/30/11 08:38
Location: New york

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#5

Post by upstate »

Yes!!!!!

Yom

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#6

Post by WiFlyFisher »

upstate wrote:
04/09/21 14:30
Yes!!!!!

Yom
Tom,

If you had said the opposite I would have thought Hell had frozen over.

John

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#7

Post by WiFlyFisher »

Perry, for the early season stoneflies what else you you use besides the variant pattern?

John

bassman
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 5532
Joined: 03/23/12 23:20
Location: Cheyenne OK

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#8

Post by bassman »

This subject has been beaten to death on other threads, not that there's any reason not to do it again. I have read articles from guys doing underwater when they say wings are the first thing a trout sees on a drifting mayfly. People have been catching troutses on wingless flies for years though. I know it makes me feel better to see nice wings on a fly but one thing I've yet to figure out is why go to all the trouble of tying in the wings and use hackle the same length or even longer and bury the wings. If I put wings on I want them longer than the hackle.
On mayflies
Image
On Wulffs
Image
Even on tiny 26s
Image

davemaine
Guide
Posts: 336
Joined: 03/07/11 19:00

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#9

Post by davemaine »

This question is why Marinaro designed the large-winged thorax dry--to present a more realistic wing silhouette to mayfly sipping trout. Also why he argued that hackle color should match wing color.

We forget sometimes that the classic Catskill style dry was designed to float well on rough water, not to be a precise hatch-matcher. When slow currents or selective trout call for it, most of the masters argue for alternate styles with more realistic, prominent wings.

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#10

Post by WiFlyFisher »

Nick, I should have probably titled the topic "Imitating Ovipositing Stoneflies with Variant Dry Fly Patterns". That was really my intent. I have never before thought of using a variant to mimic fluttering stoneflies. Although it didn't work on every trout I was amazed a hackled variant worked so well at times fooling wild trout taking adult fluttering stoneflies.

At one point I was going to stick my Olympus TG-6 waterproof camera under the water as a fluttering stonefly passed by, but 42 degree water temps and feet already half numb in the river made me come to my senses and hold off.

John

MtBrittany
Master Guide
Posts: 364
Joined: 02/17/11 19:00

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#11

Post by MtBrittany »

Yes and no, IMO.

When your trying to imitate fluttering/skittering insects (i.e. stoneflies, midges, caddis, etc.), I don't believe wings are necessary, particularly on rough water surfaces.

However, on smooth, flat water where the wings are either upright, at 45 degrees or down-wing (mayfly dun, emerger or spinner), I feel the wing silhouette is very important. I tie duns and emergers with very little hackle; I don't think the hackle is important in these circumstances. Just my thoughts.
Last edited by MtBrittany on 04/10/21 21:49, edited 3 times in total.

driftless angler
Master Guide
Posts: 558
Joined: 11/09/18 14:49

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#12

Post by driftless angler »

When tying up some #18 Adams, I left the wings off a few. During the next BWO hatch, I tried both and the trout didn't seem to care one way or the other. I could see winged Adams better, however.

upstate
Master Guide
Posts: 490
Joined: 12/30/11 08:38
Location: New york

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#13

Post by upstate »

Yes!!!!

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#14

Post by WiFlyFisher »

I am sorry if I confused some people with my topic title. Just to make it clear, I am referring to early spring stoneflies...

Image

The water I was fishing throughout March and a couple days in April is not what I consider fast and rough, like the Madison River. I have actually watched trout come up, follow and refuse my fly (probably because of drag).

Image

Since stoneflies do not look anything like a variant dry fly what was it that triggered trout after wild trout to take my variant dry fly? For me, that is what gets me coming back. If it was simple I would probably quit.

John

dharleyd
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 07/25/17 14:36

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#15

Post by dharleyd »

John is that the Namekagon by Tagalder Rd.

WiFlyFisher
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1557
Joined: 03/19/12 10:29

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#16

Post by WiFlyFisher »

dharleyd wrote:
04/09/21 20:17
John is that the Namekagon by Tagalder Rd.
No.

ted patlen
Master Guide
Posts: 408
Joined: 01/25/11 19:00

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#17

Post by ted patlen »

All the time? Sometimes? Do variants work all the time? how about "no hackle" sidewinders? Great arguments wither way.

I do think presentation over rules all, but even that is not 100%.

A grifiths gnat makes a good fly for skittering insects too.

User avatar
Caneghost
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1185
Joined: 06/15/13 18:51
Location: Hancock, NY
Contact:

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#18

Post by Caneghost »

Yes! And No! Sometimes, as a lot depends upon the trout and their mood. I like some grizzly or other barred hackle on stones with a CDC down wing.

If there was one answer to these questions we would all have given up fly fishing long ago!
...a wink of gold like the glint of sunlight on polished cane...

brightwatercatskill.art.blog

NewUtahCaneAngler
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 2383
Joined: 01/22/17 17:05
Location: Utah

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#19

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

This fly would not look as good to the Angler...now whether the trout really cares has been disputed for more than a century

Image

It came to me in a very early unmarked Wheatley box that I recently purchased.

billems
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1620
Joined: 05/11/06 18:00

Re: Do wings really matter on hackled dry flies?

#20

Post by billems »

I remember "The Ring and the Rise" showing the wings reflected in the "mirror" and believe that have to be important in duping a fish.

Post Reply

Return to “Collecting and Tying Classic Flies”