Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

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BGreer
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Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#1

Post by BGreer »

I'll be headed to the Catskill gathering in September.

I've never fished the Catskills. Heck, I've only been remotely close to that area once...almost 30 years ago.

I've searched for hatch charts and that sort of thing but I've come up somewhat empty.
However they all list the 'slate drake' and BWOs for the month of September. I've found some patterns for nymphs and dries for the slate drake.
It seems the body color is all over the place for the slate drakes.
The BWOs I have a good handle on. We seem to have them around everywhere in the midwest.

It reads like the famous hatches of Catskill flies are usually in the spring time?

What should I be tying up? What should I expect?

Thanks for any help guys.

Brian

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ibookje
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#2

Post by ibookje »

Give the Dette fly ship a call. They surely would give you some pointers

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wannabe
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#3

Post by wannabe »

Dette's will steer you right. I'd start there as well.

I often tie with the Deleware River Club spectrumized dubbing. https://drc-fly-shop.myshopify.com/prod ... 3e3e&_ss=r

The theory is that it looks lighter than the bug, but hits the right shade when wet, and its mix of colors makes it less monotone. It's worked well for me on Isos. I typically rib it with a dark thread as the Iso bodies are distinctly two colors.

I typically have my best luck with a hair-wing iso emerger pattern with a cdc underwing and an Antron or Darlin (available at Dette's) shuck.

For a dun, I typically tie a version of the improved sparkle dun but with a dubbed/ribbed body. I've been experimenting this year with Harrop's hair-wing dun patterns and they've been fishing well.

I'm often fishing Isos in riffly water, so I haven't found the fish nearly as picky with that bug as with the sulphurs or olives.

I'm sure you're set with olive patterns, but I'll put in a plug for Tak's Dun pattern in Ed Engle's book _Fishing and Tying Small Flies_ It's been great for me over the past few years. Bring a few small (20-24) olive soft hackles as well.

Get in touch when you're here if you like company when you fish. If I'm free and can join, I'd be happy to meet up.

Bret

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#4

Post by Caneghost »

Isonychia in size 12 are olive when they first hatch and quickly darken to a claret color. Caucci's spectrumized is a good dubbing for them. A Comparadun with a dark gray wing is a standby pattern.

Hebe's are size 18 or 20 and can be nearly chartreuse. I blend some pale yellow with a little chartreuse and that works. Olives tend to be size 20 and a medium olive color. Terrestrials can still take fish and there may be flying ants around from about size 18 down to 28. Tricos are typically size 24 and can be important at times. There is also a mayfly locals call the September peach fly generally a size 16 reminiscent of a sulfur but kinmdof a peachy orange color. You can blend some sulfur orange beaver with a little cream beaver to lighten the orange.

It has been a funny year so far so it can be hard to predict exactly what September will bring.
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Red64
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#5

Post by Red64 »

Brian, have you tried looking for hatch charts for the Beaverkill, Willowemoc or perhaps the Neversink?
BWO, tricos, caddis, light cahills and definitely streamers in the fall. Perhaps even terrestials - ants
The folks at Dette's are a very good source of information. I still fish the Beaverkill once a year, my friends here in Phoenix think I am nuts but when I lived in New York State, and was single, I made the trip from Buffalo to Roscoe numerous times during trout season.
Have fun!

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BGreer
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#6

Post by BGreer »

Thank you all for the kind offers, PMs, and great information.

I am now pointed in the right direction. I will start to gather some materials I know that I don't have.
I'll give Dette's fly shop a call or stop in when I first get into town.

Bret, thank you for the kind offer. I checked out the Deleware River Club website. I found a very nice hatch chart there.
Their dubbing looks very nice....very specific for types of bugs.

Caneghost, that is some very helpful information. Your explanation answers why I saw different colors for a 'slate drake'.
Thank you for the tips on those small local bugs, I have found patterns for those.

Red, I did find some hatch charts when I web searched for specific streams. It seems that most of the bugs are the same with one or two specific bug changes.

Thanks again for the information. At least now I won't show up empty handed and clueless.

Brian

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#7

Post by Eric Peper »

I fished the region for decades. IMO it'd be somewhat sacrilegious to go to that water without at least a handful of classic Catskill patterns.

EP
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#8

Post by WiFlyFisher »

If Iso's are on the trout's menu tie up some of Flick's Dun Variants. It is a deadly pattern.

John

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#9

Post by Caneghost »

While you are doing the Art Flick thing, I have good success in late summer with Flick's Blue Winged Olive, wingless tie. I like Kreinik silk dubbing in "brown olive" with a rusty dun hackle for the tail and hackling. Sizes are 20 and 22. Eric is correct, the tradition lives on these rivers.

That part of September here is summer not fall when it comes to either the calendar or the weather, though Mother nature can do whatever she wants. Think low clear water, long fine leaders and light rods. An 8' four weight is my typical summer rod choice, such as my Granger 8040. If you hit flying ants, you could be in for something amazing, but pray they are not the 28's! I had good fish breaking the hooks last summer when tied on my old Partridge Marinaro Midge hooks in 28.
Photo: A Dun Variant tied by Mary Dette Clark
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#10

Post by Caneghost »

Here is a summer boat box I just filled up as the drift boat will be the only means of fishing our rivers for a while thanks to too much rain and spilling reservoirs. Tan and cinnamon X-Caddis in 18 & 20, 16 Cahills, Catskill style and parachutes, 12 Isonychia, and olives in 18 and 20. Not sure if I will see the caddis or not - a funny year. Early September is still summer!

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...a wink of gold like the glint of sunlight on polished cane...

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#11

Post by canogacreek »

Talk to Joe Risk at Trout town Flies in Roscoe. Him and the folks at Dettes flu shop on Livonston Manor will give you all the info you need.
"What was big was not the trout, but the chance. What was full was not my creel but my memory".
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BGreer
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#12

Post by BGreer »

More good info.....thank you.

Eric, that is a good point....well taken.
I tied up a few Catskill dries. I used mallard for the upright wings. They look "ok" but not great. I need to find some feathers that are more uniform in length. It seem that the wood duck feathers are a little harder to find. I'm sure with practice the flies will improve.

WiFlyFisher, on your recommendation I looked up Art Flick's flies and checked out his variant. It looks like he used slightly longer tails and longer hackle, 2-3 times as long on his flies. I will tie up some of those Art Flick variants for sure.

Caneghost, thanks for the tips and the fly pictures. It looks like I am going to be tying up a variety of flies. I might as well dedicate one or two fly boxes just to this Catskill trip.

Canogacreek, I will do that. I plan to make a round from Roscoe to Livingston Manor and hit up the fly shops.

Thank you all again. I've got some tying materials on the way. I will hit up my local fly shop to see if they have any wood duck. The other big local fly shop shows they are out of stock on their webpage. It looks like a lot of places are out of stock. If I can't find any, I'll look for better mallard.
I'll be tying flies while letting glue and varnish dry on my Catskill Challenge rod.

Brian
Last edited by BGreer on 08/23/21 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#13

Post by WiFlyFisher »

For my Midwestern Dun Variants I use a TMC 100 size #14 dry fly hook and a size #10 Whiting rooster hackle.

Enjoy your time in the Catskills!

I will check my stash of wood duck flank feathers when I get a chance. I might send you a PM for your address to mail you some. The Catskill trout I am sure still prefer wood duck wings. :lol

John

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#14

Post by flyty2 »

Check out the book "Tying Catskill-Style Dry Flies":

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/19347 ... UTF8&psc=1

I just got it, and it's a beautiful book. I've been using Light Cahill's for PMD hatches, and they work beautifully. In the book, the old masters were much more meticulous about tying in the lemon wood duck wings v. the technique where you roll a feather into a clump, tie it in, then divide into halves, and wrap around each base, which is what I have been doing.

I also cannot find any lemon wood duck feathers for sale.

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BGreer
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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#15

Post by BGreer »

Thank you everyone.

I've just returned from the Catskills and fishing was successful thanks to you guys.

I mainly fished the area around Rosco and Livingston Manor. I ran into some nice Iso hatches, caddis hatches, and small olives.

For the Isos, the comparadun style worked well on top and a soft hackle with the multi colored dubbing worked well underneath.

One morning I ran into a pretty decent caddis hatch. I caught a couple on caddis patterns but I certainly had no golden ticket for them.

For the small olives, I was successful with a #24 parachute BWO as well as a #24 tied with a CDC wing and a small antron tail.

I was really impressed by the bug activity and the fish's positive reaction to them. Lots of rising fish to be seen. Everyone said that I really need to be there in the spring time for the hatches. The weather was perfect....in the 70's every day with a mix of sun and clouds.
Everyone I met was generous and gracious.....either telling me decent spots to fish, offering to take me fishing. I spent 5 days after the gathering just fishing and I wish I had another 5 days. There are a lot of places to fish. Even with all of the private land on the streams it was nice to see that there was still plenty of access.

Brian

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#16

Post by ibookje »

Nice Brian
So nice to hear there are still nice people around!

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#17

Post by billems »

It's always been a dream of mine to get over there. Then, mid summer, I want to see the Rockies.

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#18

Post by billems »

It's always been a dream of mine to get over there. Then, mid summer, I want to see the Rockies.

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#19

Post by andre49 »

I work at TroutTownFlies, stop in and say hello...we’ll make sure you know what’s going on.
Andre

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Re: Flies for the Catskills in the fall.

#20

Post by Hellmtflies »

Best for me years ago in September were the Isonychia Bicolor/Harperi/Sadlerie, DunVariant. Size #10 for me. A #10 Burgandy Haystack worked well or a Isonychia wet.

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