Ergonomics at the Tying Table

[billems]

As a fly fisher in the sunset of his whatever, I notice that I only tie the day before fishing. I used to do it most every day, but the back, neck and shoulder pain makes me pay the price. I'd like to hear--from any of you with similar maladies concerning ergonomics--things like table height, the chairs you use, or anything that increases your comfort while tying. Thanks.

[GerardH]

Adjustable height office chair with an adjustable back rest solves/prevents a lot of issues. But the #1 thing for me is bright, even lighting -- saves on eye, neck, and shoulder strain.

[hat]

I suffer from degenerative disc disease (mostly in my neck). What has helped me the most in terms of fly tying is tying in the standing position on an anti-fatigue mat. I built a simple raised wooden frame that fits on my tying bench at the proper height. I tie fewer flies than I used to at each session, and walk around or stretch after each pair of flies (depending on the pattern). On a given day, I may use a neck brace. The things we do for love!

[DrLogik]

I use a bench clamp vise with the vise adjusted so that the height of the fly vise head is about belly button high. I have a Dyna-King with a vise extension "L" arm so that I can do this. I push the "L" arm from the bottom of the clamp and then insert the vise stem. This lets me relax my shoulders and really saves the neck and shoulders.

This is the stem I use and it can probably be used with multiple vises:
https://dyna-king.com/shop/vise-extension-l-shape/

[bassman]

I've found that I need the vise much higher, nearly at eye level (maybe mouth level) these days. My back is fine in my office chair but if I run the vise as low as a lot of people do I get a stiff neck from looking down. I use the same vise I always have with base but have been raising it more every year. Once it sat flat on table, now it sits on a box about 4" higher than it used to.

[Perry Palin]

Bill,
Word one: Ibuprofen.
I once bought the entire kit of rod making/rod repair tools and supplies and tying supplies from a guy of a certain age who couldn't anymore handle the pain and needed an excuse to avoid repairing the rods of friends and former customers.
I made my tying table a few inches higher than standard and use a Renzetti with the base. The table brings the jaws up to a good height for me.
Taken together the advice to date gives you some things to try, and the answer for you will be personal.

[Norm Frechette]

my table top height is 29 inches from the floor

my vise height is 10 1/2 inches above the table top

i use an adjustable office chair

[Hellmtflies]

I use a chair that sits a bit higher then the standard so I am able to look down and hold my arms lower than if the chair was the usual height. This gives me a longer time span at the vise. My arms aren't tired quickly and easier on my back too. Note that I don't tie every day. I tie in spurts/runs. I'll tie a lot for two or three weeks then I'm off for a few. Most winters, starting in say late October to April, I tie regularly.
Mark

[Peales]

Hey Bill,
Tying at a desk is a bit different than the ergonomic set up for keyboard and monitor. Here’s my take on it. The jaws of the vice should be higher (as others have pointed out). Looking down can be hard on your neck and back. So now that the jaws are higher, that means that your arms are going to be raised, meaning your going to be ‘carrying’ more arm weight as you tie. That’s going to take a toll on your neck and back as well. A fully adjustable office chair might help, but it’s doubtful the arm rests can adjust that high. I sometimes rig something up for my elbows to rest on intermittently.

I take frequent intermissions, and try not to lock-in to any one position for too long. I also make sure that my vice is close, so I’m not reaching out to far away from my body as well.

[mac7x]

A caution about ibuprophen; years ago, when ibuprophen meant prescription Motrin, and naproxen was new, I had frequent bouts of low back pain. One day, returning from a morning's fishing with my back hurting, I took a naproxen, and very shortly, my stomach began hurting. It got so bad I thought I might die, and frankly, wouldn't have minded. Fortunately, it didn't last very long, and I was able to fish that evening. Thereafter, I was very careful using NSAIDS, but eventually ibuprophen caused the same stomach pain that naproxen had.
My recommendation is acetaminophen (Tylenol), if you're fortunate enough that it works for you.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, I don't do much tying anymore, and I always had trouble sitting, and still do. My software engineer son had his company move to all work online during this pandemic. They sent his $800 office chair home with him.

Jay Edwards

[Brooks]

My body seems really adapted to sitting on a bar stool while tying. Must be some kind of muscle memory ;-)

[twistedtippet]

My body seems really adapted to sitting on a bar stool while tying. Must be some kind of muscle memory ;-)

[Hellmtflies]

Never being able to tie again would make me nutz. Especially in winter. Our winters are long here in Mt. Anyway, recently I had Rotator Cuff surgery. That has made tying impossible for the first month or so. But now I am finally able to start again at the above shown bench. So, what I have done is simply put a pillow on the chair to raise myself up and not have to reach up and out beyond my capability. Also, I moved the vise closer to the edge of the table towards me. That will change but I have another two months or so before I'm back to normal. That should be just in time for being able to cast again too. If there's a will there's a way.

[PYochim]

Here is my set up. I think it is important to see the fly with your head and neck in a neutral position.

[Brooks]

My wife's hobby is 'felting' which is the relentless jabbing of barbed needles into raw wool thousands and thousands of times, bent over, doing fine work, much like fly-tying. She just got herself an Uplift desk--one of those electronic raise-and-lower desks that you can stand up and work at, or lower it and sit. It will help her lower back pain from bending over doing endless fine work.

I have to admit I am envious. That desk would be awesome for fly-tying.

[billems]

My wife's hobby is 'felting' which is the relentless jabbing of barbed needles into raw wool thousands and thousands of times, bent over, doing fine work, much like fly-tying. She just got herself an Uplift desk--one of those electronic raise-and-lower desks that you can stand up and work at, or lower it and sit. It will help her lower back pain from bending over doing endless fine work.

I have to admit I am envious. That desk would be awesome for fly-tying.

Nice table. What's the make? Where did she purchase it?

[Brooks]

billems, she ordered it from upliftdesk.com. That photo is a stock photo online. My wife's desk is actually a fancier, bigger model. Really nice, with multi-plug-ins for lights, computers, phone charging etc. Hers is solid black.
In case you're wondering what the heck 'felting' is, these are examples of what she jabs away at incessantly at raw wool turning it into little figures.
Makes 'knitting' a fly seem easy.

[bamboo rodley]

In response to the Ibuprofen comment. I've been taking tumeric supplements for about five months now, mainly for knee and other joint pain. It took about a month to kick in, but I am now more or less pain free, and am able to continue my exercise routines much like I did when I was younger. I recommend giving it a try. It has other benefits besides pain relief, and is also much easier on your liver than taking Ibuprofen all the time.

[Caneghost]

I built my tying table with the top 26" above the floor to allow for the desktop tying table I use. My Dad built this one for me when I owned my fly shop. The height recommendation came from the late Dennis Skarka of Catskill Flies in Roscoe, NY via Harry Darbee and my own experience. Adjustable leather desk chair with arm rests.

I now generally tie on my old Regal pedestal vice, though I also clamp a Dyna King onto the vice arm. I can rest elbows on arm rests to help keep my arthritis (neck) in check, etc.
Since retirement I have tied between 120 and 170 dozen flies per year though I don't usually tie more than a dozen at a sitting.