What the Heck is a......

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

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czkid
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What the Heck is a......

#1

Post by czkid »

Cochybondo???? Does anyone have photos etc. The Brits just have such a damn wierd vocabulary......

Ralph

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wiscoy
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#2

Post by wiscoy »

no

but some descriptions

Cock-y-bondhu means 'red with black trunk' in Welsh and dates back to 1700's

"A furnace hackle is reddish with dark central area around the stem.

A cochybondhu hackle is similar, but is also dark at the outer edge of the fibres. "
"It is better to tie one good fly in an hour than a dozen that would only be taken by a trout with a sense of humor"
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Mataura mayfly
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#3

Post by Mataura mayfly »

This is tongue in cheek??
Perhaps it is made with a body of auto body panel filler..... I have seen it refered to as Bondo.

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#4

Post by JimmyB11 »

Not only is it a popular feather for salmon tyers it is also a well known bookseller in the UK Coch-y-Bonddu Books http://www.anglebooks.com/

Remember when Brittania ruled the waves the Brits were out pillaging and plundering worldwide for exotic salmon feathers, that was a naval priority. Fletcher Christian and all, it was a crazy time.

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czkid
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#5

Post by czkid »

That is a pretty good verbal description... now if someone could PLEASE post a photo my soul will be content. At least it's not some God Forsaken exotic bird from Duba-dubaland.

Ralph

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wiscoy
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#6

Post by wiscoy »

"It is better to tie one good fly in an hour than a dozen that would only be taken by a trout with a sense of humor"
Uncle Bill

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Mataura mayfly
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#7

Post by Mataura mayfly »

I was kind of thinking it was April first in your neck of the woods as well.
The capes are rare to find now and much prized by those that have them.

I will have a search through the stocks and see what I can find to photograph, but basically as stated above they are furnace hackle with black tips as well as close to the stem. They are bright and shiny as a rule. I have not seen any true Cock-y-bondhu capes for sale for a long time.

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#8

Post by joners »

Hi Ralph!

The following is from Alan Goodwin's site...http://www.thehighlanderway.com/streams.html

The Coch-y-Bondhu, on the other hand, sometimes spelled (bonddu) is of Welsh origin. Interpreted as "Red with Black Trunk" but so popular here in Scotland I consider it a "Scottish" pattern" by right of conquest *g* Sometimes know here in the land of my birth as a "Wee Cochy" It was originally tied to imitate the June Bug & is an excellent small stream pattern & what I call "A must pattern" It is also known here as The Bracken Cloch. A cloch  being an old Scots term for beetle. Whatever it is called with this on a stream cast you have one of the finest general "beetle" patterns around, a really good little wet fly. Peacock herl bodies are most important to us fly tiers & most flies that incorporate this material either in body or indeed as thorax in nymphal representations are usually  successful & enduring fly patterns. The "Bronze" taken from well down the stalk is by far the best for this situation.
 
Coch-y-Bondhu

Cap'n Bob

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czkid
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#9

Post by czkid »

BINGO!!!!! I'm golden!!! I've got the hackle and now a good description of the fly. I got a great hackle of that type from Conranch Hackle... his stuff is absolutely super. As a matter of fact I've got both the hen and cock versions... I'll probably use the hen primarily since I tie mainly "softhackle" flies.

A million thanks. As a bit of repayment... get your tush out to the White and Norfolk rivers in N. AR... the caddis hatch is in full bloom. 8 browns, 14 to 18 inchs with shoulders, in less than an hours on Partridge and Green. What an evening!!!
Just above Cotter for those in the know.......

Ralph

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#10

Post by joaniebo »

Ralph

E-mail sent to you with info from Moc Morgan's book on Welsh flies.

Best

Bob

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quashnet
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#11

Post by quashnet »

The Coch-y-bondhu beetle pattern is shown in color in Plate XIV of Trout Flies: A Discussion and a Dictionary (1932) by A. Courtney Williams, and two of the natural beetles are shown in Plate VII. In the text there is a long discussion, mostly speculating which species of Welsh beetle may have been the actual one first imitated by the fly. Williams: "The natural beetle is frequently used by local Welsh fishermen, who do great execution with it... Whilst Coch-y-bondhu is the customary spelling... I feel sure that the original name was Coch-y-boldu, meaning "red and black belly." This name is still used by old Welsh fishermen and is a good description of the beetle."

Image
Phyllopertha horticola, which Williams believed was the natural insect iimitated by the Coch-y-bondhu fly. "The average length of the beetle is 7/16 inch."
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czkid
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#12

Post by czkid »

Thanks to all for providing such wonderful information. Now anyone with an inquiring mind can find what they need on our Forum.

As an aside... you see the name continuously in UK fishing literature without any hint of a description, as well as tying instructions that go into wonderful detail and merely say, "...now wrap the Conch y Bondu hackle ...". I just wonder how many current Brits even know what the heck the articles are talking about?

Ralph :pipe

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#13

Post by Mataura mayfly »

I would say most current Brits,Scots & Irish, most Kiwis and I even imagine most Australians would know the pattern if not the true hackle. (Most are tied with furnace now days.)
It is still a very popular pattern here in NZ, used wet or dry to imitate mainly the brown beetle, but it may be taken for a blowfly..... have to ask the next trout to fall for one.

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#14

Post by cutthroattroutnm »

That was the ultimate fly choice by my guides in NZ when you couldn't get a fish to move for any other dry fly.

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Gnome
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#15

Post by Gnome »

Try an old school alder tied with the proper Cock-y-bondhu hackle.
It has been big magic down through the centuries.

gold tag, bronze peacock herl, mottled brown turkey wing. Cock-y-bondhu hackle.
change the turkey to bronze mallard and you have a screaming dark caddis, #12-#20

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#16

Post by mvbrooks »

In Europe, there are several varieties of Cock-y-bondhu that encountered. I bought up every neck I could get my hands on, especially the Greenwell variety. All had a dark dun, NOT black, center and dark dun to black tips. The main color wasn't really brown, it was a rusty dun to bronze dun brown with lots of bronzy highlights (honestly, exactly like bronze peacock, as Gnome mentions) on the facing side and a definite bronze dun to honey dun back. The Greenwell has a ginger brown overall appearance and the classic Cock-y-Bindhu was a definite dark brown. I encountered a gorgeous saddle that was almost a straw color that I "stashed" for my own Atherton #3's. I've never seen anything quite like it before or since. I have enough of the Greenwell and classic saddles that I tie all of my Atherton's #5 and #6 and Greenwell Glories with them. I LOVE those hackles and they really do make a huge difference when fished.

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#17

Post by macknnc »

Just checked and the 1948 Herters fishing catalog had the Cock-y-bondhu hackle color is listed.

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czkid
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Re: What the Heck is a......

#18

Post by czkid »

Interesting to see all the "old pros" start emerging when you talk about this kind of fly. I treasure each and every fly I have from old Mike Brooks!!! They are an inspiration for me, and I have several hanging in front of my tying bench as models.

Ralph

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#19

Post by redietz »

macknnc wrote:Just checked and the 1948 Herters fishing catalog had the Cock-y-bondhu hackle color is listed.
They were still listing it in the 60's when I started tying.

I'm somewhat surprised that there are tyers/tiers who don't know what it is.

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Re: What the Heck is a......

#20

Post by macknnc »

redietz wrote:
macknnc wrote:Just checked and the 1948 Herters fishing catalog had the Cock-y-bondhu hackle color is listed.
They were still listing it in the 60's when I started tying.

I'm somewhat surprised that there are tyers/tiers who don't know what it is.
Well my Herter catalog collection spans from 1948 to 1972 when it was still listed..again though..the color not the fly. How much earlier it could have been listed I have no idea. Most info I am picking up indicates the 1930s 'catalog' was more along the lines of a sheet of paper listing what was available. The '1893' date so proudly proclaimed on the front of Herters catalog was playing a little bit fast and loose with the facts. The 1893 Herters was a hardware store.

I do have a book here that details the materials in a Cock-y-bondhu fly...stay tuned

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