The Frenchie Nymph

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

Moderators: Ken M 44, joaniebo

Post Reply
joaniebo
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 4018
Joined: 11/07/05 19:00
Location: IL

The Frenchie Nymph

#1

Post by joaniebo »

A friend mentioned that he recently attended a fly fishing show when a fellow was talking about "The Frenchie Nymph" as being the "go-to fly" in a recent fly fishing championship tournament. I've done a couple Google searches and find quite a few different dressings for this nymph (with copper beads and wire or gold beads and wire; pink dubbing behind bead or orange thread behind bead or pink dubbing AND orange thread behind the bead; with pheasant tail or Coq de Leon for the tails; and all with PT bodies.

Does anyone know the ORIGINAL dressing for this nymph? Thanks.

Bob

PS - Forgot to mention.....curved or straight shanked hooks?

ScottThornley
Sport
Posts: 93
Joined: 02/19/12 17:48

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#2

Post by ScottThornley »

I'm certainly no expert, or a fly historian, but I certainly wouldn't worry about what's "original" with a Frenchie. They were designed for competition - super fast to tie, simple, effective. Hot spot colors are optional, as are their placement (thorax vs tail). Make half a dozen each of different variations, and see what is working best on any particular day. Anglers have seen pink work on one day, purple the next, or maybe orange. I'm certain that's part of their origin - flexibility/adaptability. That, and the whole "if you believe in the fly, the fish will bite" thing...

I'm playing around with glass bead hot spots right now, and that certainly isn't "original". I'm also sleeping quite well at night; no guilty conscience keeping me awake.

The one's I've seen/used/tied were all on straight shank hooks, but why wouldn't a curved hook do? Actually, on second thought, I might have some size 18's made on Tiemco 200R hooks...

User avatar
flyfishingpastor
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 5057
Joined: 07/12/07 18:00
Location: Eastern Washington State

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#3

Post by flyfishingpastor »

Looks like a stripped down Pink Squirrel. Kinda. :)

Pat

joaniebo
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 4018
Joined: 11/07/05 19:00
Location: IL

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#4

Post by joaniebo »

Pat

That was my first thought !

Bob

User avatar
flyfishingpastor
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 5057
Joined: 07/12/07 18:00
Location: Eastern Washington State

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#5

Post by flyfishingpastor »

Great minds, Bob. Great minds! :)

Pat

User avatar
bearbutt
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12/31/06 19:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#6

Post by bearbutt »

Goodness, Bob--in another thread you were asking people to find you Frenchie leaders, now you want them to find you Frenchie nymphs--so let me say again, oblige yourself by taking the Mrs. to Paris, and get your Frenchie fix fulfilled--they have everything Frenchie you need, oysters, champagne, Citroens, copper cookware, you name it--probably no peach pie like you had at your mother-in-laws, but I know a place that makes a most excellent rhubarb tart. And ohhhhhh--do the French know tarts. Hint: spring.

bb

bassman
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 5532
Joined: 03/23/12 23:20
Location: Cheyenne OK

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#7

Post by bassman »

Okay...so in spending some time googling the french nymph I find there is a french nymph fishing method which I question on basis of traditional fly fishing. In the French nymphing method you use a LONG tapered leader, very stiff at butt and tapering to fine thread at end. Sometimes down to 10x. The thing is, using a long soft rod you throw a jig hooked bead head with the legal amount of droppers and roll it thru the bottom layers of a run. To me this is verging more on spin fishing with a flyreel than fly fishing per se.

When I lived up north in the spring we'd have heavy runoff from the cold snow water and the Lake Superior tributaries would be high, fast, and cold. We used heavy fly rods, often taking 10' 10wt. rods and cutting 6" off each end making them even stiffer. We used fly reels, but mostly Martin multipliers or Shakespeare 1810 closed faces under rod. We used 12" Maxima with a blood knot to 8# Maxima and a dropper with our own poured lead wts. of boat anchor proportions. We did use a fly...a bright 2 tone yarn fly, usually with a rubber egg. We caught some big steelhead like this in big numbers like this, but I would not call it fly fishing. If what they are doing is basically the same but in lighter weights I don't see this as fly fishing anymore than what we did.

They could do the same thing with an ultralight spin reel and get disqualified from their competitions, yet what they are doing is no different without even using a fly line to cast, only 20-30' long leaders. I'm no purist and yes, I also caught some of the trout on the White on ultralight spin tackle and enjoy it, but if a competition is fly fishing, it should be traditional.
JMHO
Nick

User avatar
catskilljohn64
Guide
Posts: 101
Joined: 01/05/12 20:40

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#8

Post by catskilljohn64 »

ScottThornley wrote:I'm certainly no expert, or a fly historian, but I certainly wouldn't worry about what's "original" with a Frenchie. They were designed for competition - super fast to tie, simple, effective. Hot spot colors are optional, as are their placement (thorax vs tail).
You hit the nail on the head Scott. I dont think there is an original, the first ones were probably tyed in 15 color variations :rollin
I was using these last summer, and sometimes they were all that would work, or at least work often enough to prove to me they were a killer pattern. You certainly dont have to fish them with a 30 ft leader either :D

I like that they are a quick tye, look great no matter how small you tye them [hares ears look like lint balls after a size 20] and if you cross your eyes a little, they look like a mayfly nymph.

I tye them in small sizes, #16 and under, and I will never be without them. CJ

bassman
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 5532
Joined: 03/23/12 23:20
Location: Cheyenne OK

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#9

Post by bassman »

I'm going to bump this up once to see if others agree with my assessment of french nymphing as done during trout tournaments. I repeat...I'm no purist, just coming back into fly fishing after bassing, walleyes, and other trash fish for many many years. What I'm looking at is allowing this technique. In bass and walleye tournaments there were very strick rules and no-no's to be concerned with. Seems to me they should limit leader length like we limited rod length. Require a fly line from the leader back that is a legit line. And if they allow bead flies, ( l love them ), then they must be a straight eye and not a crappie jig.

Just my thoughts and they ONLY pertain to tournament fishing, not the way you and I go out to have a quiet enjoyable day on the water interupted occasionally by a splash of life on the end of the end of the line.

tackleman
Guide
Posts: 237
Joined: 03/25/07 18:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#10

Post by tackleman »

There is 'fly fishing' and then there is 'fishing a fly'.
Let the debate over the crossover edge begin!

User avatar
catskilljohn64
Guide
Posts: 101
Joined: 01/05/12 20:40

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#11

Post by catskilljohn64 »

Having never fished in a "tournament" and not even remotely having the desire to do so, I dont know the rules. I do know there are "strict" rules though, as a friend of mine got DQ'ed for having orange beads on a few of the flies in his arsenal, and apparently thats a no-no.

I love beads too, and stiff rooster hackle, wood duck, indian crow, etc. I hear guys groaning about the Euro nymphing techniques alot, how its not fly fishing, beads are the devils material, why dont you just use a spinning rod, etc. Mostly these comments are coming from the guys that just stepped out of the water fishless, as the high sticking dude follows in their footsteps plucking fish after fish from where they were just casting. Call it what you want, its a deadly effective way to catch trout.

I have fished with a "known" Euro-nymphing guy, this guy is unbelievable. No trout is safe around him, and he works his equipment like a conductor waves his little stick at the orchestra, flawlessly and effectively. I was amazed, in awe actually at the ease he hooked and released trout, he is like a machine.

On the ride home I got to thinking, would I want to catch that many fish so easily? How long can you do that before it stops being fishing, and starts being what my other friend calls "harvesting"? Its not my thing for sure, although I would never critisize a guys methods or equipment. To each his own I guess, and think of it like this, at least its not using bait :lol CJ

JeffK
Master Guide
Posts: 418
Joined: 01/17/08 19:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#12

Post by JeffK »

Frenchie is just an offshoot of a bead head pheasant tail. After the Killer Bug discussion in another thread I reread Sawyer and that original pheasant tail is sure a simple thing - just some pheasant tail and copper wire. Bead makes it a little heavier, synthetic dubbing is a little flashier - but I sure recognize it. Like the original PT the Frenchie does away with the hackle (although Sawyer used hackle on emergers). BTW, Sawyer used just three nymph patterns and was a legend on English chalkstreams, so I'm not sure it's always the pattern. His argument was that clingers and burrowers weren't available much to trout, so why not concentrate on the swimming nymphs - which the pheasant tail (and Frenchie) looks like. The legs aren't sticking out when a mayfly nymph is swimming along.

The Euronymphing/high sticking/Tenkara/ is it fly fishing debate goes around and around. In the end the successful fishermen refine basic skills to a high degree and none is an idiot proof way to get fish.

User avatar
baetisrodhani
Master Guide
Posts: 467
Joined: 11/30/07 19:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#13

Post by baetisrodhani »

There's also Czech nymphing, similar to the French approach from what I understand: a heavily weighted nymph (a grub type on a caddis hook in this case) fished under the rod tip at the end of a long leader, with no "real" casting involved, since the fly line stays on the reel. Much like the bait fishing technique you see some guys still doing where it's tolerated - and that's many places in Continental Europe. And those boys catch fish, the ones with the long bait rods as well as those arboring a fly rod, because they're the predator types, guided by the efficiency of good instinct and the urge for material success.
I'm more with the moods drawn from the dreameries of the contemplative angler's art, the open loops of antique rods and flies so small you eventually drop them before finding the hook's eye to tie them to your tippet...
In a sense, they practice survival; I just live the gift of days on the river.
Cheers,

Giles

joaniebo
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 4018
Joined: 11/07/05 19:00
Location: IL

Re: The Frenchie Nymph / Sawyer's Nymphs

#14

Post by joaniebo »

Scroll down for pics of Frank Sawyer's flies:

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=50522

joaniebo
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 4018
Joined: 11/07/05 19:00
Location: IL

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#15

Post by joaniebo »

Tied up a few of The Bearded Bohemian's Frenchie Nymph version, ordered the Long Camou French Leaders, and am now semi-ready for the challenges when the Cheese Country season re-opens in the coming weeks .......and watching "The Pilferers" in action (sometimes as much fun as fishing!

User avatar
flyfishermann1955
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1320
Joined: 09/01/06 18:00
Location: Midwest City, OK

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#16

Post by flyfishermann1955 »

Tim doesn't claim this to be "100% original", but here's his version of the Frenchie. Hopefully, this link will work:

http://midcurrent.com/videos/how-to-tie ... dium=email

Thanks- Ken

joaniebo
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 4018
Joined: 11/07/05 19:00
Location: IL

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#17

Post by joaniebo »

Received some "Hends Camou French Leaders" last week. Will (hopefully) try them in the coming weeks.

narcodog
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1812
Joined: 04/08/07 18:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#18

Post by narcodog »

Joe Fox just posted a series of Frenchie flies on sparsegraymatter.

User avatar
catskilljohn64
Guide
Posts: 101
Joined: 01/05/12 20:40

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#19

Post by catskilljohn64 »

Here is the link to Joe's story...

http://www.sparsegreymatter.com/viewtop ... f=4&t=5296

CJ

User avatar
shakeylee
Guide
Posts: 296
Joined: 12/07/07 19:00

Re: The Frenchie Nymph

#20

Post by shakeylee »

even though they are a beadhead,i like flies tyed in the round. i've been tying these with an up-eye hook.experimenting with penetration.

Post Reply

Return to “Collecting and Tying Classic Flies”