Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
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Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#161Wow, eight pages on Chadwick's. This may beat Overton's wax.
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see . Marvin Gaye
Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#162I updated the picture of the two different dye lot skeins of my prior post to show them in natural light
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Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#163Received my skein of Berroco 1214 today. Wow, this is big hunk of yarn fellas!
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Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#164Recieved my skein yesterday and it is a lot of yarn! It is also the darker blend as well.
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Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#165Norcal,norcal_1 wrote:Upon further inspection, there are differences in the blends. Specifically the wool component used in the formulation. Dye Lot 7A1142 (lighter one) is marked "50% Peruvian wool," while Dye Lot 2J2709 (darker one), uses "50% Superwash Wool". The rest of the blend is the same for both: 30% Nylon and 20% Superfine Alpaca.
This picture below was taken in natural light conditions. You can see the noticeable difference in the darker shade of one vs the other.
Your dye lot 2J2709 is a new one to me. I presume it is the one on the left of your photo (less pink), right? And lot 7A1142 is the skein on the right? (I wasn't sure which you described as light and which was dark.)
Colors of the two dye lots that I owned (dye lots 2J9711 and 7A1142) were indistinguishable to my eyes. Both looked very similar to the skein on the right of your photo. (I say "owned", because I no longer have dye lot #2J9711; it was wrapped onto cards and given away to lots of folks.) I presently own several skeins of lot 7A1142, which has a reddish appearance like the skein on the right of your photo. I would characterize the reddish color as more of a brick red than pink.
Incidentally, my lot 2J9711 was labeled "50% Superwash Wool", and my lots 7A1142 are labelled "50% Peruvian Wool" (plus 30% nylon and 20% alpaca for both). These yarns are all made in Peru, so I doubt the labeling difference is significant.
Yarn forensics!
Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#166Phil,
Dye Lot 7A1142 (lighter greyish one) is on the left, while Dye Lot 2J2709 (tannish pink toned one) is on the right in that photo
They're both really nice and would make a great tandem two fly set-up to give the trout a choice of either color
I think the thing that's also great about these is the fact that you can change the color of the Ultra Wire underneath and get the same translucence see-through effect for imitating other insects like caddis (tan/olive) or mayflies (brown/gray/olive/rust)
I'm going to tie many in varied (underwire) colors as soft hackles, too
Dye Lot 7A1142 (lighter greyish one) is on the left, while Dye Lot 2J2709 (tannish pink toned one) is on the right in that photo
They're both really nice and would make a great tandem two fly set-up to give the trout a choice of either color
I think the thing that's also great about these is the fact that you can change the color of the Ultra Wire underneath and get the same translucence see-through effect for imitating other insects like caddis (tan/olive) or mayflies (brown/gray/olive/rust)
I'm going to tie many in varied (underwire) colors as soft hackles, too
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Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#167I want to publicly thank PhilA for sending me a large hank of Berroco Ultra Alpaca Fine #1214 and a bobbin holder with a bobbin of the correct copper wire. I can't thank him enough for his generosity and for starting this great post.
Thank you,
.........Barney
Thank you,
.........Barney
Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#168I also want to thank PhilA for his generosity in sending along a large sample of Berroco Ultra Alpaca Fine #1214 - and also for the time he put into the excellent post here on the forum. I look forward to tying this mystical fly and fishing it on my home waters of central PA, hoping the trout of Penns Creek will find it attractive when mayflies/caddis flies/stone flies aren't bringing them to the surface.
That said I'm still a little bit conflicted about using this nondescript fly to probe the waters. As a hatch matcher I can't help but want to add a tiny starling collar hackle to the pattern and give myself credit for creating a caddis larva the trout can't resist. Ha! However, to honor Mr. Sawyer (his pheasant tail pattern is my favorite nymph) I will tie several with copper wire, and of course some with red wire.
Thanks again Phil,
Jeff
That said I'm still a little bit conflicted about using this nondescript fly to probe the waters. As a hatch matcher I can't help but want to add a tiny starling collar hackle to the pattern and give myself credit for creating a caddis larva the trout can't resist. Ha! However, to honor Mr. Sawyer (his pheasant tail pattern is my favorite nymph) I will tie several with copper wire, and of course some with red wire.
Thanks again Phil,
Jeff
"The greatest barrier to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of
knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Re: Chadwick's 477 -- a better substitute
#169Long overdue thanks to PhilA on this post. I picked up a skein of 1214 dye lot number 2J9711 in 2016 when this was originally posted. Now it looks like the supply source has run out which is unfortunate. I did some calling around and our local yarn/knitting place had one left in stock but the dye lot number was 801. I had the gal at the shop set it aside I ended up getting it after work yesterday. Thankfully, it is identical to lot number 2J9711 - to the human eye there is no difference in color.
One thing I have noticed on this pattern - if tied the way Sawyer tied it without use of thread - is that mine fall apart after 2-3 fish. They start to unravel and eventually they need to be replaced. Does anyone have a secret to getting these to hold up better? I am applying glue to the butt end but the unraveling is starting at the front. I have been tempted to use thread along with the wire to get a more durable fly; tradition be damned.
One thing I have noticed on this pattern - if tied the way Sawyer tied it without use of thread - is that mine fall apart after 2-3 fish. They start to unravel and eventually they need to be replaced. Does anyone have a secret to getting these to hold up better? I am applying glue to the butt end but the unraveling is starting at the front. I have been tempted to use thread along with the wire to get a more durable fly; tradition be damned.