Split thread, really?

[cdmoore]

In case anyone is interested, Marc Petitjean has some videos on YouTube showing his methods (and tools...no financial interest, yada, yada) for using the split thread technique with CDC. Here's one to get you started. There are others with more detail. I like CDC but it doesn't always play nice like most dubbing and the extra grab and twist of the split thread really helps. +1 on the dubbing loop if you can't get the thread to split nicely.

[thegubster]

In case anyone is interested, Marc Petitjean has some videos on YouTube showing his methods (and tools...no financial interest, yada, yada) for using the split thread technique with CDC. Here's one to get you started. There are others with more detail. I like CDC but it doesn't always play nice like most dubbing and the extra grab and twist of the split thread really helps. +1 on the dubbing loop if you can't get the thread to split nicely.

Ya know I've always wanted to get one of those M.P. tools and put it off and put it off. I can see a benefit as demo'd here! Works well!

I'll probably "think about it some more" and wind up not gettin' one...

Thanks for this reminder. I LOVE CDC and have bought lots in bulk! Wonderful stuff!!

[mvbrooks]

Just pull 6 inches or so of thread off a bobbin, the thread wrapped onto a hook and in that in your vice; counter spin the thread, while it lays over your thumb nail. It will sudden spread, go flat, when the fibers are lined up parallel and easy to split.

[rsagebrush]

Mike, That is how I do it and it works really good for me.

[BrownBear]

It boils down to a question something like "split-ability." It's a combo of the thread, the splitting tool and technique. When they don't come together, it's a worthless technique. But when you pull the pieces together, it's very quick and easy. Equally important, it can have advantages for certain patterns.

I've invested the time to learn how to do it and accumulated the threads and tools that work for me. It's about 10x faster than a loop and requires no wax. I'll do it in a heartbeat when it produces the effect I want.

But it's not a be-all to end-all. There are lots of applications where a loop or a twist right onto the thread are better. You're certainly not going to produce a finely tapered, tightly wrapped dry fly body with either split thread or a loop, for example.

It's just one more arrow in a quiver of tools and techniques for fly tying. If you don't sort it out, you're missing something. If you get all dogmatic about using it, you're missing something too. Especially on patterns like emergers, you likely will end up using several dubbing methods in moving from the abdomen to the thorax.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Hi BB,

Absolutely. Split thread technique is but one arrow in the quiver, but it is a straight shaft, sharp point, well fletched arrow for sure

Cheers,
Hans W

[PYochim]

BB, Hans is the maestro of this technique and his videos are very helpful. What has also helped me is to use a very fine needle to separate the strands of the thread. You don't want a needle too sharp or it will cut the thread. A 26 gauge pencil point spinal needle is perfect but they are hard to come by.

[upstate]

By the way does any one know who invented this technique.Pretty sure I know but
Not for sure as is every thing else in fly fishing?

Tom

[BrownBear]

...a very fine needle to separate the strands of the thread. You don't want a needle too sharp or it will cut the thread. A 26 gauge pencil point spinal needle is perfect but they are hard to come by.

That's why I settled on the tiny glovers needles from leather and bead suppliers. You can sharpen them yourself easily to an incredibly fine point, then drag the three edges across your strop to dull them and avoid thread cuts. Easy source, easy self-sharpening, and easy use. Works for me!

[BrownBear]

...but one arrow in the quiver, but it is a straight shaft, sharp point, well fletched arrow for sure

Cheers,
Hans W

I considered going on to describe the fine qualities of this particular arrow, but You've done better than I could ever manage!

Heck, for saltwater flies and bigger freshwater flies I go so far as using a "dubbing loop" of brass or stainless wire. AP and a few others now sell preformed dubbing of this style as "brushes" and it's dandy when their choice of color and texture meets your needs. Some years back I acquired a handy little machine for making my own, which really opens doors. No substitute I've found when you need really long fibers on your dubbing.

[Hans Weilenmann]

By the way does any one know who invented this technique.Pretty sure I know but
Not for sure as is every thing else in fly fishing?

Tom,

One would think this technique to be deployed for quite a long time, but it has proven quite hard to determine the origin. In some old texts, in the description of certain patterns, there is a suggestion that it might have been used but nothing definitive.

When Wayne Luallen - who has a deep understanding of flytying history and is very thorough in his research - investigated the origin of the split thread technique, this is what he dug up:

===

(excerpt from a text by Wayne titled: Split-thread Dubbing - dated November 1994)

Who can be sure of the first person to apply the split-thread technique? I know of several for whom I have demonstrated it that
indicate they have seen it before. Gary Kaplin sent me some written material from a class Steve Gobin taught in San Francisco in 1992. In it Gobin tells how he uses a bodkin to split the thread, then "wax lightly and rub your dubbing down to lightly dust the thread with fur. Close the loop and twist counter-clockwise." The technique is bound to have been around for some
time, though I am surprised that I have not seen it before. Split-thread dubbing was first brought to my attention by Davy Wotton of
Wales when I visited with him in May, 1994.

Wotton wrote an article in the English magazine, Fly- Fishing & Fly-Tying, May/June 1994 titled "Split for the Difference." In the article he explains the use of his synthetic dubbing material, Partridge SLF (Synthetic Living Fiber, or as he put it "seals live forever!") Dubbing, in a split-thread application. His technique was developed for the purpose of better representation of "any...organism that bears elements of translucency." He writes, "For the last 18 months, I have been experimenting with various fly-dressing methods in order to achieve a much higher degree of translucency surrounding the metal hooks. Readers will have seen some of the techniques I have described that deploy the use of a dubbing loop. The following technique tackles this to a much more advanced stage."

Wotton's description of application then follows.
1) He creates a "mat of dubbing material."
2) He supports the thread with a finger tip slightly below the hook, allowing the bobbin to keep the thread taut, which he says will
flatten it. (I prefer to have my thread manually untwisted at this point.)
3) He then splits the thread with a bodkin at the point his finger touches the thread or at the point the thread comes off the hook.
4) Next he slides the bodkin down the thread opening a loop into which the mat of dubbing is inserted.
5) The thread is then twisted "anti-clockwise" to entrap it. (For the right hand tier, an anti-clockwise twist will make each wrap slide back against the prior one. For the left hand tier, twist the thread clockwise to achieve the same effect.)

===

If there are earlier written references, from before 1992 and 1994, which describe the split thread I would be very interested to hear about them.

Cheers,
Hans W

[16pmd]

I think the split thread technique might have been originated by Syd Glasso, the master fly tier from Forks, Washington who is credited with being the father of the steelhead spey fly. He tied his exquisite spey flies from the 1960's, and they were first publicized in Trey Combs' book, Steelhead Fly Fishing and Flies in 1979. He used single strand floss for the rear half of the body and then split the floss and inserted seals fur for the front half, making for a smooth transition from slender floss to slender seal dubbed body. It's not entirely clear when he started using that technique, but Steve Gobin learned from Syd, so I think it's likely that Syd taught it to him. I was in that 1992 GGACC class with Steve Gobin, who is a terrific tier in his own right, but don't recall if he mentioned who originated the split-thread technique. Glasso flies are highly collectible and quite scarce.

[mvbrooks]

Crosfield. He used split silk for dubbing. Glasso learned a lot of his techniques from studying Crosfield's flies. In Crosfield's day, thread was woven, and didn't split. Silk, however, was available in really fine diameter and that is what Crosfield used. Look at some of the old photo's of Crosfield's ties.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Crosfield. He used split silk for dubbing. Glasso learned a lot of his techniques from studying Crosfield's flies. In Crosfield's day, thread was woven, and didn't split. Silk, however, was available in really fine diameter and that is what Crosfield used. Look at some of the old photo's of Crosfield's ties.

Ernest Crosfield is interesting information, as that makes a leap to the turn of the 19th century.

On the other hand, split silk as body material (Crosfield, Glasso) does not equate exactly the deployment of split tying thread. I am still curious whether a split thread reference pre-dating 1992 and 1994 can be located?

Cheers,
Hans W

[Doublehauler]

Well, thank you one and all. I never anticipated such an over whelming response to my post. I've tried most of the suggestions. The strop is a good item to have around, I will get one of those. I can't find a glover's needle in any store I tried in NW Montana, will look around the big city of Missoula next time I get there. I am having better success already with splitting that dang thread. I think I was using thread too narrow for my skills. 3/0 Danville seems to work better for me than 6/0 or Uni thread. From the response about Uni, it apparently isn't the one to use.

But, thank you again, everyone who contributed, it was all a big help.

Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy New Year, with lots of fighting trout on your flylines.
Jim Johnson, Doublehauler
Bigfork, Montana

[BrownBear]

Check with bead stores or anyone who sells beading supplies, as well as a Tandy or other leather store. They're cheap, at around $3 for 5 of them. The larger the size # the smaller the needle. The glovers sold at bead shop tend to be lots smaller (tiny) than those for leather.

Here is one of many online bead sources. I started out using their size #4G for thread splitting. Then I discovered the glovers at Tandy. The small size has turned out to be my overall favorite. They appear more expensive than the other source, but in fact that's a price for 10, if I recall correctly. Could even be a dozen.

[mvbrooks]

Hans - if you wanted to be technical, Crosfield used that fine diameter silk as his tying thread. He made sure the the thread fibers were parallel, by counterspining it while tying. It laid flatter than Pearsall's thread and he was very picky about separating materials with a single wrap of thread, going toward the eye. I have seen original Black Silk and Brockweir (spelling?) patterns tied by Crossfield and they're amazing. No bulk whatsoever. And, that fine silk IS the tying thread he used. The diameter is about that of Danville's Fly Master.

[Hans Weilenmann]

Hans - if you wanted to be technical, Crosfield used that fine diameter silk as his tying thread. He made sure the the thread fibers were parallel, by counterspining it while tying. It laid flatter than Pearsall's thread and he was very picky about separating materials with a single wrap of thread, going toward the eye. I have seen original Black Silk and Brockweir (spelling?) patterns tied by Crossfield and they're amazing. No bulk whatsoever. And, that fine silk IS the tying thread he used. The diameter is about that of Danville's Fly Master.

Thanks for clarifying. What you describe most certainly qualifies

Cheers,
Hans W