Payne reel seat material

History of the E.F. Payne Rod Co. Feel free to discuss Payne Rods here.

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ParkerDHE
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Payne reel seat material

#1

Post by ParkerDHE »

Has anyone seen woods other than Spanish cedar--for example walnut--used in Payne Halstead style reel seats of the 40s and 50s? Thanks, please PM to save space.

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Short Tip
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#2

Post by Short Tip »

I've only ever seen Spanish Cedar, which is a type of walnut and can look pretty close sometimes.

I would call my sample size "medium".

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Titelines
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#3

Post by Titelines »

ParkerDHE wrote:Thanks, please PM to save space.
This is a forum. The whole idea behind a forum like this is to be able to ask questions, and have the forum members reply to those questions and pass on their knowledge for everybody. Then that information remains in perpetuity for others that may have the same question or questions. There's no need to save space. We'll never run out of disk space on the server that hosts this forum.

Ask it here, answer it here.

Mark

JimmyB11
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#4

Post by JimmyB11 »

Woods are funny things and while Spanish Cedar is not actually cedar, it is more closely related to the Mahogany family, all woods of Latin America. It is difficult to always identify a small piece of finished wood to exact specie. Payne made rods for so many decades that it is a safe bet that walnut was used when supplies of Spanish cedar were scarce. Walnut is a domestic hardwood and readily available.

Spanish cedar is known as "Cedrela Odorata" and is a cousin to the Mahogany family as mentioned above. H L Leonard used a lot of butternut which is a walnut. Butternut or white walnut is "Juglans cineria" and black walnut is "Juglans Nigra" so they are very closely related but with very different looks.

One of the thing I really like about the Payne Rod company is how consistent the rods were in appearance over such a long time, imagine a rod company today making the same "look" for decades. Those days are long gone.

ParkerDHE
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#5

Post by ParkerDHE »

Thanks all. JF

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carl otto
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#6

Post by carl otto »

As an aside, through a long time older (and now deceased) forum member I acquired 2 gross (288) spanish cedar reel seat blanks made up for E. F. Payne by the noted New York wood importer Conover. I sold these for a time to forum members with still some left. What I found is each reel seat was perfectly quarter sawn on each face and the even straight grained down their length, showing the perfection, in just one way, Payne wished to receive from its suppliers.

The wood is VERY fragrant and found mostly in use to make high end cigar boxes and humidors, because it was noted for its properties to keep bugs away, just as the North American "cedars" were known for. I believe this comparison is how it became known, from South America, therefore "Spanish" and fragrant as our "cedars", therefore cedar. It is a a soft wood to work, open grain, light weight. When I use it it perfumes the entire shop for days. I throw the scraps into our clothing drawers where the fragrance wafts out every time one opens a drawer for months after.

Best,

Carl @ Wanigas Rod Company

crowebeetle
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#7

Post by crowebeetle »

the butternut is being attacked by a fungus and is being decimated not unlike the chestnut.

https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/ja/ja_ ... aum002.htm

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wctc1
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#8

Post by wctc1 »

David first opened the "museum" in Sisters, Oregon. When he lost the lease he moved the equipment and resources to a heated storage / shop facility in the Sisters "industrial park." He took me on an extensive tour of the storage area in the winter of 2003 / 04. Among a hundred other things he showed me a stack of thick Spanish Cedar planks that were carefully stored with small spaces between, and cross members for air circulation.

Without going to storage and opening my boxes of Oregon Bamboo research papers, I know for sure he humorously said, "There's enough cedar here to make rods for a thousand years."

He said that the wood was ordered by the Payne Co. But unfortunately, I don't know for sure if it was pre-WWII or post WWII. I think it was pre-WWII because he showed me a stash of pre-war cane. While wood was in old plank form and it was January, I remember it being fragrant. David was very obviously proud of the planks.

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flyflkr
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Re: Payne reel seat material

#9

Post by flyflkr »

I just found this thread and see it's an old one. I just wanted to add I once had a 9' 3pc. Payne and the reelseat looked like walnut to me. Another unusual thing, at least to me, was it had a narrow piece of some black material at about the middle point of the grip. I liked it. I'm not enough of a Payne expert to know what year it might have been made.

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