Nice fish make my reel fall off

[Mister Bill]

Most of my 3-4-5 wt rods have downlocking sliding band Bellinger wood reel seats. When I use my Hardy reels, I am OK, but, invariably, when I get a nice fish on with my J Austin Forbes or Adams reel, the reel falls off during the battle. Not a good thing.

Would an all-cork seat help the situation, or should I go to uplocking or downlocking threaded reelseat?

For some reason, I am attracted to downlocking on lighter rods, but I don’t know why.

What is your take on downlocking vs uplocking?

Bill

[bulldog1935]

is it because the feet are too thin or too thick - i.e., does the sliding band go too far up the foot or too shallow?
If it's the former, you can put a strip of moleskin on the bottom of the foot and everything should snug up.

[Mister Bill]

It is too shallow. The ring barely slides over the end. I could file the foot smaller, but that would ruin the resale value.

Bill

[bulldog1935]

I would count that as a no-fit and change reels.
If you want to file something, the reel seat spacer is replaceable.

[flyman219]

You might try squeezing the slip ring as you slide it up the reel foot. If you can flex it a tad you might be able to get just a bit more bite on the reel foot. Other than that sanding the reel seat would be my choice also.

Mike Monsos

[DT4F]

I picked up some rubber ring gaskets at Ace Hardware and rolled them on over behind the rings to keep the reels from falling off even if they loosen during the fight. I got tired of picking reels up off the bottoms of streams.

[Mister Bill]

DT4F,

Wonderful idea. That might save me all of the work I had dreamed up.

Would you call those black O rings?

Bill

[Mister Bill]

I got to thinking that I have no problem when reeling in small, docile fish when holding the reel at about bellybutton level.

The problem arises when I get a good fish on and feel the need to take up slack in a hurry by getting into the Orvis position.

I will try to change my habits, but you do what you gotta do when you get a nice bass on.

Bill

[avyoung]

I got to thinking that I have no problem when reeling in small, docile fish when holding the reel at about bellybutton level.

The problem arises when I get a good fish on and feel the need to take up slack in a hurry by getting into the Orvis position.

I will try to change my habits, but you do what you gotta do when you get a nice bass on.

Bill

The idea you mentioned of cork sounds the best solution to me. Maybe a cork strip along the reel seat spacer and sanded along the edges to soft the look?

tony

[canerodscom]

Hmm, are the wood spacers standard issue from Bellinger? Or are they made by someone else? Sounds to me like the wooden spacer is not the correct size.

Harry

[Mister Bill]

Harry,

I put these Bellinger's on four rods and they all have the same issue except Hardy reels fit great.

Bill

[canerodscom]

Hmm, I rarely hear of problems with Bellinger seats. Still wondering if the wood inserts are from Bellinger or are shop made???

Among those who make their own reel seats, Hardy feet are notorious for being different than most others. I suggest to my rod customers that if they are going to use a Hardy reel (particularly an older model) they send me the reel and let me be certain the reel will fit well.

On my workbench are two reel feet. One is Hardy, the other J. Austin Forbes (AFTMA standard sized). I can make the insert any size necessary to fit either foot well. But if the seat fits one foot, it will not fit the other well.

Harry

[dave49]

As an amateur reel maker, I have found this to be a vexing issue. The cure for this kind of problem (at least for future production; we cannot erase the past) should be a standard for reel foot dimensions. And indeed there is a standard: http://www.affta.org/wp-content/uploads ... andard.pdf
This standard tells us the foot length A, the bottom radius B, the slope C, the width D, and the tip thickness E. What could go wrong?
What can and does go wrong is that the standard fails to specify the radius of the top of the foot. If I as a reel maker cut a top radius that matches the ID of the sliding ring on your seat (and if the mortise on your wood insert is a reasonable depth) then the ring grips the foot quite well. But if the two radii do not match, then the ring touches the foot either at just the center or at just the two edges. In this case, the ring not so likely to grip well.

[carl otto]

A lot of problems with sliding band type reel seats is that the band is not machined properly. Either the early makers could not machine to that thinness, or the metals were not good enough or they just did not understand the mechanics. Anyway for some reason fat bands have been marketed for a long time. Yes they work sometimes, but not all the time, hence the above concern. They are way too thick. If you have seen a Leon Hanson rod and looked at the seats he manufactures (since 1978) you will understand. If the band can flex on to the reel foot it will lock the reel to the seat. The seat does not have to be cork. Cork does not solve the locking problem. Depending on the cork to deform to secure your seat just ruins your seat and eventually will fail.

I have fished Hanson rods for over thirty years. Everything from a 7'0" 3 wt up to a 8'9" 7 wt. and NEVER had a reel come off. I have used Orvis CFO's, Ari Hart, Ross Gunnison, Abel, Hardy, Bogdan and Charlton reels without a problem. A quality nickel silver or titanium THIN band is what you want. There is no need for a screw locking reel seat with a properly made sliding band. "Less is more".



This is one of eight big rainbows taken on the lower Henry's Fork in big fast water one day with a Hanson 8'6", 6 wt of 3.3 ounces with a old Ross Gunnison 2 reel. There was never a concern about the reel coming off.

Carl @ Wanigas Rod Company

[DT4F]

DT4F,

Wonderful idea. That might save me all of the work I had dreamed up.

Would you call those black O rings?

Bill

They are black O rings. Go in and eye-ball them. You can easily get the proper ones.
Doc

[Mister Bill]

Does anyone know if the Bellinger sliding bands are beveled on the inside?

Maybe I have it on backwards, but I think I remember checking and could not tell a difference.

Bill

[flyman219]

I don't know for sure but I'd be surprised if they didn't. You might be able to slip a digital caliper under each side to compare them without removing the ring. When I make my slip rings I can see the difference with the naked eye.

Mike

[bulldog1935]

It's interesting that a Gunnison shows up on this thread. When I bought a Gunnison in '92 along with a new Fisher Sterling, the foot on the Gunnison was too thin to properly fit the PacBay band and screw seat - the band went all the way to bumpstop and the reel still rattled.
Ross made a second thicker foot which they provided gratis with new screws even, and solved that problem.

[Double D]

As Carl Otto pointed out some sliding bands are to thick to adjust to the top radius causing the problems dave49 described above.
Searching for a thinner band to replace the old one matching the style of the butt cap is not easy. In some cases rod maker can thin a sliding band (by widening the inner diameter) after the butt cap has been taken off the spacer. Reassembling is no problem then.
Personally I have replaced some down locking reel seats with uplocking versions no matter the line weight of the rod. Stopped doing so cause I hate the process of removing the the old spacer and because I am down to the number of 7 rods now (just two have still downlocking). The whole trouble started with a 3 1/8 Perfect with a ripple reel foot that came off several times...

Double D

[oldfishbrain]

When I make a reel seat I test the fit with several reel feet-some thick, some thin. I prefer a loose fit as it can be fixed with a strip of the loop or the hook part of Velcro under the foot (Velcro is much better than moleskin as it has a lot of spring to it and the foot can be compressed onto it for a secure fit).
Don't forget that the same problem of proper fit can occur at the butt cap end of the reel seat. I have a prefire Leonard with incredibly shallow clearance at the butt cap. The only reel that fits is an original Leonard Fairy. The only way to correct this is to make an extra foot for the reel you want to use. Not an easy fix.