Screw Slots
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Screw Slots
#1A friend of mine bought this antique reel, a Meek 44.
One back plate screw is missing and I am trying to make replacement. But I do not know how to make the slot. The slots on the original screws seem to be almost V shaped. My circular saw blades make square bottom slots. What tool do I need?
Dave
One back plate screw is missing and I am trying to make replacement. But I do not know how to make the slot. The slots on the original screws seem to be almost V shaped. My circular saw blades make square bottom slots. What tool do I need?
Dave
Last edited by dave49 on 12/31/19 10:33, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Screw Slots
#2Hard to tell from the pictures, have a close look and see what you think the angle might be, since the depth of cut is so shallow it could be a double angle milling cutter and the reason it does not look like a steep angle is that it is so shallow. It also could have been created by a press stamping, the v would make sense if that slot was stamped, the more I think about it the more I like this as a likely way it was done. I would cut an undersize slot with a slitting saw and then give it a quick blow with a fine cold chisel, that should replicate it.
Have a look at double angle chamfer cutters with a goole image search and you will see what they look like, this is a guess but try to extrapolate the angle and that will help, even a triangular file will modify a slot too.
Have a look at double angle chamfer cutters with a goole image search and you will see what they look like, this is a guess but try to extrapolate the angle and that will help, even a triangular file will modify a slot too.
Re: Screw Slots
#3Dave,
See if any of these fit your application.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Tungs ... N=5yc1vZgr
http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5891-carvin ... r-bit.aspx
https://www.routerbits.com/carving-v-gr ... uter-bits/
http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v13 ... ve_forming
Galt
See if any of these fit your application.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Tungs ... N=5yc1vZgr
http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5891-carvin ... r-bit.aspx
https://www.routerbits.com/carving-v-gr ... uter-bits/
http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v13 ... ve_forming
Galt
Know the reasons for your actions
Re: Screw Slots
#4My limited photography resources are not going to allow a better picture of the slot. Looks to me as if the slots are .020 wide at the top and .050 deep, so the included angle is on the order of 20 degrees. Other screws on the reel, like the one securing the crank, have the same slot.
Jimmy, I agree that stamping was likely the forming process. I think that the reel is over 100 years old, so technology then may not have allowed today's square bottom slots.
Galt, the Dremel bit is clearly intended for metal cutting and is nearly the proper angle. But now I find that I have a Swiss file with a wedge shaped section. I will make an .010 wide initial saw cut and then try finishing by filing.
What is most puzzling about the slot is the tooling to properly drive the screws. I was able to use a modern screwdriver only after grinding the tip to a sharp angle, and then felt lucky to get sufficient grip with such a weak tool.
Dave
Jimmy, I agree that stamping was likely the forming process. I think that the reel is over 100 years old, so technology then may not have allowed today's square bottom slots.
Galt, the Dremel bit is clearly intended for metal cutting and is nearly the proper angle. But now I find that I have a Swiss file with a wedge shaped section. I will make an .010 wide initial saw cut and then try finishing by filing.
What is most puzzling about the slot is the tooling to properly drive the screws. I was able to use a modern screwdriver only after grinding the tip to a sharp angle, and then felt lucky to get sufficient grip with such a weak tool.
Dave
Re: Screw Slots
#5"What is most puzzling about the slot is the tooling to properly drive the screws. I was able to use a modern screwdriver only after grinding the tip to a sharp angle, and then felt lucky to get sufficient grip with such a weak tool."
Dave,
Your observation is entirely correct. A wedge shaped driver in a wedged shape slot subjected to a torque creates a camming action that 'lifts' the driver out of the slot not to mention the deformation of such a thin driver under the required torque to break the fastener loose. Just because something can be manufactured in some fashion doesn't mean it should be. Sometimes it is just the expedient method. That being said, those screw slots were probably fine for the intended time and torque. Disassemble, clean up the threads and re-assemble with a little anti-seize and you should be fine for another 100 years.
Galt
Dave,
Your observation is entirely correct. A wedge shaped driver in a wedged shape slot subjected to a torque creates a camming action that 'lifts' the driver out of the slot not to mention the deformation of such a thin driver under the required torque to break the fastener loose. Just because something can be manufactured in some fashion doesn't mean it should be. Sometimes it is just the expedient method. That being said, those screw slots were probably fine for the intended time and torque. Disassemble, clean up the threads and re-assemble with a little anti-seize and you should be fine for another 100 years.
Galt
Know the reasons for your actions
Re: Screw Slots
#6Dave, Your friends reel is definitely over 100 years old. It is either a first or second model. A view of the face plate will tell me. What is the serial number? If my memory is correct I believe that I've read that the screws were hand cut.
Dennis
Dennis
Re: Screw Slots
#7Hi Guys, I usually use a hack saw, with the emphasis on the 'hack.' No, no, don't do that! I'm sorry.....
I really do think the Meek 44 is the absolute best looking fly reel ever made. You have a really nice one. Jay Edwards
I really do think the Meek 44 is the absolute best looking fly reel ever made. You have a really nice one. Jay Edwards
Last edited by bluesjay on 10/22/14 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Screw Slots
#8Here is the front view. The number stamped on the bottom of the foot is 2329. Sounds like a lot of screws to hand cut.
A tip from outside the forum is that the slot can be hand cut with a narrow saw blade that has been ground to remove the set from the teeth.
Dave
A tip from outside the forum is that the slot can be hand cut with a narrow saw blade that has been ground to remove the set from the teeth.
Dave
Last edited by dave49 on 12/31/19 10:36, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Screw Slots
#9Dave, your friends Meek 44 is a first model and late 19th or very early 20th century. A great reel.
Dennis
Dennis
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Re: Screw Slots
#10A Japanese feather file might work well to cut such a slot. I bought one years ago to sharpen a Japanese saw. Never used it on the saw, but that file has been useful for many things. You can Google it and find them easily.
Tim
Tim
Re: Screw Slots
#11Dave. Glad you are able to resuscitate this absolute classic. The
idiosyncratic dogleg winding arm shows this is a truly rare first model.
It is generally believed only 15 ! were issued around 1900.
My hunch is that this asymmetric arm was abandoned for the second model which had a symmetrical arm and also lacks some of the marvelous Meek knurling. It is easier to make a symmetrical arm, but perhaps more
important is that it allows the reel to be operated by either left or right hand winding.
To me the first model is the loveliest production fly reel ever made and that is why I emulate it in my "44 Special" offering.
idiosyncratic dogleg winding arm shows this is a truly rare first model.
It is generally believed only 15 ! were issued around 1900.
My hunch is that this asymmetric arm was abandoned for the second model which had a symmetrical arm and also lacks some of the marvelous Meek knurling. It is easier to make a symmetrical arm, but perhaps more
important is that it allows the reel to be operated by either left or right hand winding.
To me the first model is the loveliest production fly reel ever made and that is why I emulate it in my "44 Special" offering.
Re: Screw Slots
#12fishugo,
I do not understand your comment about right or left hand operation. How can the symmetry/asymmetry of the crank have an effect?
Several years ago I posed on this forum the question of which way an "S" crank should curve, and found that there was no universal agreement.
Dave
I do not understand your comment about right or left hand operation. How can the symmetry/asymmetry of the crank have an effect?
Several years ago I posed on this forum the question of which way an "S" crank should curve, and found that there was no universal agreement.
Dave
Re: Screw Slots
#13You use a correct size slitting saw blade, which is mounted on a lathe with the screw mounted onto a piece of stock mounted in a cross slide or a milling attachment.
Slitting saw blades are commonly found items at suppliers of machine tools. They are also what I use to cut bamboo and what you can use to make a Leonard beveler.
Slitting saw blades are commonly found items at suppliers of machine tools. They are also what I use to cut bamboo and what you can use to make a Leonard beveler.
Chris
Re: Screw Slots
#14Hi Dave,
Another option very similar to what 64emmons has described is the drill and tap a mandrel held in the lathe tool post, screw the screw into that and slot with a dremel cut off dics held in the chuck. Quick, easy and works well for me.
Another option very similar to what 64emmons has described is the drill and tap a mandrel held in the lathe tool post, screw the screw into that and slot with a dremel cut off dics held in the chuck. Quick, easy and works well for me.
Re: Screw Slots
#15yeah well looks like Dave did it with a modified screwdriver, altho a collet would likely have been a backup solution.
Dave, the dogleg arm is poised for action in that it's "foot" is is slightly in advance of the balance arm in the direction of spin. IMHO it would just be goofy to wind opposite the direction the arm points. I think we have been there before and agreed it was simply an aesthetic or personal preference issue.
Nevertheless, the clone I am finishing up for actual use has an asymmetrical click spring that makes it easier to wind than wind out.
This corresponds with the dogleg curve.
Fred
Dave, the dogleg arm is poised for action in that it's "foot" is is slightly in advance of the balance arm in the direction of spin. IMHO it would just be goofy to wind opposite the direction the arm points. I think we have been there before and agreed it was simply an aesthetic or personal preference issue.
Nevertheless, the clone I am finishing up for actual use has an asymmetrical click spring that makes it easier to wind than wind out.
This corresponds with the dogleg curve.
Fred
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Re: Screw Slots
#16Brownells sells " screw slot files " , should do what you need . I mark the center on screws , in the lathe , then cut with a fine blade hacksaw . Tune up with the file . Probably way late ,but , future reference ? Good luck . Dave
Re: Screw Slots
#18True handmade screws are a lot of work. Ask me how I know. The real masters time the screws with candle black.
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Re: Screw Slots
#19I made wood screws by hand with a " rat tail " file . Not as tough as it sounds , but great " bragging rites . " I know , wrong kind of screw . Sling buttons for early " Germanic " style flint lock rifles . That's the old Dave . File on ! Dave
Re: Screw Slots
#20dave49 wrote:fishugo,
I do not understand your comment about right or left hand operation. How can the symmetry/asymmetry of the crank have an effect?
Several years ago I posed on this forum the question of which way an "S" crank should curve, and found that there was no universal agreement.
Dave
Dave, just noted this post from 3 years back. Perhaps the curve pointing the knob in the direction of travel is mere aesthetics, but seems to derive from EVH reels that were generally right handed due to general usage.