Leader Length

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cappy
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Posts: 253
Joined: 08/23/17 04:09

Leader Length

#1

Post by cappy »

Just wondering what you're thoughts are on choosing a leader length. I know there are many variables. Generally I typically I keep it the length of the rod, maybe add another foot or two depending on stream conditions and casting room. If it's going to be a roll casting day I keep the leader short.
Until one has loved an animal a part of one's soul remains unawakened.
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BrownBear
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Re: Leader Length

#2

Post by BrownBear »

That's a good round number.

Also consider stiffness of the leader butts to aid in wind fights and turning over large flies or long leaders. As the wind goes up or the flies get bigger, my leaders get shorter and stiffer. Leader butts get stiffer too when leaders get long for spooky fish, especially as the front half of the leader gets limper.

I make all my own leaders quickly and easily on the water, often using several different leaders over the course of a day as conditions and flies change. It can sure pay off to match your leader to the conditions and challenges of the moment.

tcorfey
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Joined: 01/23/17 03:59
Location: East Bay Area CA

Re: Leader Length

#3

Post by tcorfey »

My leader lengths and the material being used vary based on the conditions and the fly being used. Bigger flies usually get shorter leaders and smaller flies get longer leaders.

I make my own nylon leaders and normally use blood knots. But this year I have been experimenting with Gary Borger's recommendations on using a uni-body to Harvey style leader. I have found it pretty convenient so far.

http://www.garyborger.com/2012/05/09/un ... le-leader/

As far as leader lengths I will go as short as 3-4 feet for streamers and as long as 15-16' for dry fly fishing on spring creeks. Most times I am between 10-12' for leader and tippet. I will also shorten it up by using a 50" furled leader and a couple of feet of tippet when using 6' to 7.5' rods on smaller streams. Occasionally, I buy a tapered leader to keep in my pocket "just in case" and these will be 7.5' for 4x and then add some tippet material as needed.

Regards,

Tim C.

DUCKMANNM
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Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA

Re: Leader Length

#4

Post by DUCKMANNM »

For small streams 7 1/2, larger water 9 feet. Once fishing on the Fall River in northern California, the guide had us fishing downstream with minimum 15 foot leaders. Water clear as gin and smooth as glass, Fall River is considered a large spring creek. No way to wade and boats are restricted to electric motors. And its not easy to set the hook on a rising fish with all of that slack in the leader and fly line! Regarding Uni-Knots! They don't work as well as they should when using fluorocarbon tippet material! That stuff is slicker than slick!





Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you!

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PENZZZ
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Location: Lehigh Valley, PA

Re: Leader Length

#5

Post by PENZZZ »

Not exactly a leader length answer, more a leader composition answer.

Several years ago I built 7’6” 4wt bamboo rod. I immediately had difficulty presenting dry flies with the rod. Getting my leader to roll out required additional energy on the forward stroke. So I went to the lawn to try to work out a solution. I felt my DT4 fly line matched the rod well and rolled out nicely, but the fly line energy simply wasn’t continuing out through the leader to the fly. The leader seemed to hit a wall.

I came inside and searched “leaders” here on the forum. I found a comment that the suppleness/stiffness of the butt section of the leader should match the suppleness/stiffness of the end of the fly line. This comment really got my attention. Holding the last six inches of my fly line in my left hand, and the first six inches of my leader in my right hand, I flexed each to create a wave action. It was very obvious my 25 pound leader butt section (Maxima Chameleon) was far more stiff than the last several inches of my fly line. I surmised it was this disparity that was killing off the energy transfer out through my leader.

In my shop I did some quick mental calculations and built a scaled down leader that began with a 15 pound butt section. Out on the lawn again, the result was very positive. Energy transfer was more complete, extending out through my tippet. As a result of this change, fly presentation was much better on stream. Regardless of leader length, I’m now more conscious of this line to leader energy transfer and construct specific leaders for my 5, 4, and 3 weight fly rods.

Jeff
"The greatest barrier to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of
knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

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fragmentum
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Re: Leader Length

#6

Post by fragmentum »

My leader length is determined in large part to water conditions like darker dirtier run off means shorter leader and clearer flows then means longer leader. The tippet is determined by the lure to be presented, both in weight and length.

PINECREEK/DAVE
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Re: Leader Length

#7

Post by PINECREEK/DAVE »

Gentlemen,

Years ago when Orvis developed it's Super Strong constant tapered leaders I for the most part quit making my own. I use a needle nail knot joining the leader to the fly line, I use mostly 6X constant tapered leaders in different lengths depending on the stream I am fishing.

Stream size usually determines the length of the constant tapered leader I am using. On big Pine Creek it can be as long as 12', on the feeder streams like the West Branch I seldom go shorter than 9'.

I use slow action Bamboo rods most of the time and fish with some pretty large dry flies, a lot of the time. Fishing in this manner we catch some nice big trout. Big trout in Pine Creek can be very spooky, anything over 18" that has been in the wild for many years is usually a spooky fish, that wants a nice size fly to eat. These big trout have incredible eye sight, a 6x tippet usually gets the job done as long as the presentation is realistic. Learning to cast big flies on 6x tippet is an art in itself, the slow action Bamboo Fly rods make it all possible. No twisted leaders, no matter the length, when a big fish hits, the slow action Bamboo can automatically set the fly in the fishes mouth, when fishing down stream. We fish a lot of down & across, another learned experience with a lot of line out, and long constant tapered tippet. I am pretty much a purest, fishing dry flies the majority of the time. We have been teaching these techniques for many years, especially here on the upper part of Pine Creek.

Tight lines Gentlemen,

Pine Creek/Dave
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JabaliHunter
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Posts: 222
Joined: 03/19/19 18:17
Location: England

Re: Leader Length

#8

Post by JabaliHunter »

My thoughts... as a general guide, a knotless tapered leader cut to rod length (from the butt end), a Roman Moser tippet ring (the best I have found, e.g. size 4S (2mm external, 1mm internal dia.)), and add 25% to 50% tippet length, depending on what you can turn over effectively in the prevailing conditions. Sometimes you need more, sometimes you can get away with less...

billems
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Joined: 05/11/06 18:00

Re: Leader Length

#9

Post by billems »

PENZZZ wrote:
11/29/18 10:27
Not exactly a leader length answer, more a leader composition answer.

Several years ago I built 7’6” 4wt bamboo rod. I immediately had difficulty presenting dry flies with the rod. Getting my leader to roll out required additional energy on the forward stroke. So I went to the lawn to try to work out a solution. I felt my DT4 fly line matched the rod well and rolled out nicely, but the fly line energy simply wasn’t continuing out through the leader to the fly. The leader seemed to hit a wall.

I came inside and searched “leaders” here on the forum. I found a comment that the suppleness/stiffness of the butt section of the leader should match the suppleness/stiffness of the end of the fly line. This comment really got my attention. Holding the last six inches of my fly line in my left hand, and the first six inches of my leader in my right hand, I flexed each to create a wave action. It was very obvious my 25 pound leader butt section (Maxima Chameleon) was far more stiff than the last several inches of my fly line. I surmised it was this disparity that was killing off the energy transfer out through my leader.

In my shop I did some quick mental calculations and built a scaled down leader that began with a 15 pound butt section. Out on the lawn again, the result was very positive. Energy transfer was more complete, extending out through my tippet. As a result of this change, fly presentation was much better on stream. Regardless of leader length, I’m now more conscious of this line to leader energy transfer and construct specific leaders for my 5, 4, and 3 weight fly rods.

Jeff
That is exactly right. Some of these leaders have 0.24 butt sections.

ted patlen
Master Guide
Posts: 408
Joined: 01/25/11 19:00

Re: Leader Length

#10

Post by ted patlen »

There are too many variables. In short, the smaller the fly the longer and finer the leader (tippet included). The bulkier or heavier the fly the shorter and heavier the leader. Parameters would be dependent upon the casters skill.

Take an accomplished caster and someone not as seasoned (not a newbie); and one rod/line/leader/fly outfit. Odds are that the accomplished caster will cast the outfit "better" than the other. So the leader configuration needs to be modified by the not-so accomplished fly-rodder.

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Eric Peper
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Location: Island Park, ID & Austin, TX

Re: Leader Length

#11

Post by Eric Peper »

My "home" water now, due to age and insecurity, has become the Railroad Ranch stretch of the Henry's Fork because of its gentle currents and generally easy wading. The downside, of course, is its population of very snooty fish. My standard leader begins with a 9' nylon knotless leader tapered to 4X. I tie a loop in the end of this and add initially about a 3-foot section of 5X, then surgeon's knot to this a 4' section of 6X for about 16-feet overall. I do not have any trouble getting this concoction to turn over properly, tho' it can get a bit dicey in a strong wind . . . at which point I often find it convenient to have a beer. I've been using this formula with perhaps minor modifications for about ten years, so I guess it works. BTW, for this water during the time I fish it, a size 16 is a "big" fly, and generally I've got a 20 tied on.

Eric
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich

billems
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Joined: 05/11/06 18:00

Re: Leader Length

#12

Post by billems »

PINECREEK/DAVE wrote:
03/03/19 11:43
Gentlemen,

Years ago when Orvis developed it's Super Strong constant tapered leaders I for the most part quit making my own. I use a needle nail knot joining the leader to the fly line, I use mostly 6X constant tapered leaders in different lengths depending on the stream I am fishing.

Stream size usually determines the length of the constant tapered leader I am using. On big Pine Creek it can be as long as 12', on the feeder streams like the West Branch I seldom go shorter than 9'.

I use slow action Bamboo rods most of the time and fish with some pretty large dry flies, a lot of the time. Fishing in this manner we catch some nice big trout. Big trout in Pine Creek can be very spooky, anything over 18" that has been in the wild for many years is usually a spooky fish, that wants a nice size fly to eat. These big trout have incredible eye sight, a 6x tippet usually gets the job done as long as the presentation is realistic. Learning to cast big flies on 6x tippet is an art in itself, the slow action Bamboo Fly rods make it all possible. No twisted leaders, no matter the length, when a big fish hits, the slow action Bamboo can automatically set the fly in the fishes mouth, when fishing down stream. We fish a lot of down & across, another learned experience with a lot of line out, and long constant tapered tippet. I am pretty much a purest, fishing dry flies the majority of the time. We have been teaching these techniques for many years, especially here on the upper part of Pine Creek.

Tight lines Gentlemen,

Pine Creek/Dave
Image
I like your style Dave. What are some of the slow rods your prefer?

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GerardH
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Location: Wyoming, MN

Re: Leader Length

#13

Post by GerardH »

25 years ago (1995) I switched over from tying my own leaders to the Orvis braided leader system on several of my reels and was satisfied with its performance for the most part. Leader length varied from 8' for nymphing to 12'-16' for dry fly fishing. This winter I decided to go back to tying my own leaders using a rough George Harvey formula and my nymphing leaders are roughly 9-10' and dry fly leaders 12-14'.

I don't recall Maxima Chameleon having that much memory in the past...holy coils, batman.
Last edited by GerardH on 03/03/21 22:15, edited 1 time in total.

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jhuskey
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Location: IL

Re: Leader Length

#14

Post by jhuskey »

You might try cutting lengths of line needed for sections, long of course, and tie a knot on one end with a e=weight on the other - leave them hung in a heated environ, out of the Sun, for a week or so - then see if they will lay straight. If not, go to plan B.

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baughb
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Location: Henderson, NV

Re: Leader Length

#15

Post by baughb »

Late to the party, as usual. For typical dry fly fishing.

9' Tapered leader to 3X, 3'-4' of either 4X or 5X, if I add a second dry fly, at least 1 size down for the tippet and usually 18" -24". Second nymph dropper: 18" or so of 5X or 6X fluorocarbon. I tie my droppers to the eye of the larger flies.

On a single dry fly rig, I can easily reach 16' due to adding finer tippet or a very long length of 5X or 6X.

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