Orvis Midge anomaly

This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board.

Moderator: TheMontyMan

Post Reply
tcorfey
Guide
Posts: 150
Joined: 01/23/17 03:59
Location: East Bay Area CA

Orvis Midge anomaly

#1

Post by tcorfey »

Just recently was cleaning my Orvis Midge rod and noticed an anomaly regarding the weight and rated line size as written on the rod.

The data I received from Orvis is: Midge 7 1/2', 2 piece, 2 tips, ferrule size 11/64,
weight: 3 1/4 oz, line test: HEH (5), date made 4/12/67, made by Bill
Young & George Reid.

Label on the rod tube is identical to the information from Orvis.

The writing on the rod itself is different, the length is the same, but the weight is listed as 3 3/8 oz and it states line as HDG (6)

The serial # on the rod, the tube and the Orvis info all match.

Any ideas how this could have happened?

Booman2
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1142
Joined: 12/23/04 19:00

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#2

Post by Booman2 »

Orvis (and others) moved lots of rods through production and occasionally mistakes were made. Several hands have touched your rod. I have seen 3 mistakes, 2 from Orvis and a Winston. My suggestion is to measure the ferrule and if it's a 11/64, then you should be fairly sure you have a standard Midge. Otherwise, I'd contact Orvis.
Please let us know how this shakes out.

tcorfey
Guide
Posts: 150
Joined: 01/23/17 03:59
Location: East Bay Area CA

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#3

Post by tcorfey »

Definitely 11/64 ferrule. So that is good.

hopkintoncane
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1314
Joined: 01/19/07 19:00

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#4

Post by hopkintoncane »

The 7 foot Battenkill is a 3-3/8 oz (12F) for HDG(6) rod. The Midge from the 1967 period is a 3-5/8 according to both Greg's database and checking the ink on a March 1968 rod I have. I also have 3 other Midges that were built later, but the weight is the same, and the database confirms that. All Midges I have are marked HEG. I am pretty sure that the only rod from that period with a weight of 4-1/4 oz is the 7-1/2 foot 12 Superfine and that rod is usually marked HDG(6). Assuming that all sections of your rod are 45-1/2 inches in length, that there are serial numbers on all sections and the scripting on all of match up (same hand), I would agree with booman2 that the inking on the butt is wrong. If any of the above are not the case and/or the butt section is 3 inches shorter, you might have a frankenrod with a Battenkill butt section. Sounds like you have gone over the rod carefully but I would double check both the lengths and the ferrule size. I would also check Greg's database and if the rod is there see what his database has to say. If Greg's database shows 7 foot Battenkills or 7-1/2 foot Superfines being made in the immediate time period of your rod, that again would support the inking, label, or Orvis database mix-up(s). Then get back to us with the results of your research. Todd

User avatar
Greg Reynolds
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 3087
Joined: 12/21/04 19:00
Location: The Laurel Highlands, PA

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#5

Post by Greg Reynolds »

Todd's right, there's only one 2-piece Midge taper, the only one not weighing 3 5/8-oz was the 1970s MCL (cork reel seat) Midge weighing 3 1/4-oz.

I agree with the guys. Orvis likely just messed-up with labeling the rod. There're a fair number of examples of this on the database.

I did see an 11/64 Orvis Madison for sale on-line recently that confused me for a while. Turned out to be a butt from one model paired with tips from a longer Orvis.

User avatar
Greg Reynolds
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 3087
Joined: 12/21/04 19:00
Location: The Laurel Highlands, PA

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#6

Post by Greg Reynolds »

What's the serial number?

aged_sage
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1809
Joined: 01/18/08 19:00

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#7

Post by aged_sage »

My dad had a saying... "if we didn't make mistakes; they wouldn't put erasers on the ends of pencils."

tcorfey
Guide
Posts: 150
Joined: 01/23/17 03:59
Location: East Bay Area CA

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#8

Post by tcorfey »

Note: I first reported that the writing on the rod said 3 3/8 oz. Upon closer examination (with my reading glasses) of the writing on the rod I believe the weight of the rod as written on the rod is 3 5/8 oz which conforms to the other Midge rods in Greg's database. Because the top of the 5 is obscured by the edge of the flat I guessed it to be a 3 instead of a 5. Does not explain why Orvis info and label list the weight as 3 1/4 oz.

I did some measurements and research.

Both tip sections are equal length and all 3 sections have the same serial number and to my eye all in the same hand.
Length of both tip sections is 45 1/2.
Length of butt section is 45 7/16.
Actual weight according to my wife's food network digital scale is 3 1/2 oz. with either tip.
Ferrules are 11/64 (.17) according to my dial micrometer.

It is serial # 46725.
Greg's database lists the rod as 7 1/2, 11/64, 3 5/8oz 2pc. (it has 2-tips)

In the database other Midge rods made around the same time were listed with the same as the numbers seen on my rod 7 1/2 long, and 3 5/8 oz. Serial numbers 46863,64,65,66.

Just before my rod was made there were many 7 1/2 long Battenkill tapers from that time period are listed with 12/64 ferrules and weight of 3 7/8oz.

Superfines during that time period (46750) and (46766) are listed as 7' long, 11/64, and 2 5/8 oz. Other Superfines made during that period seem to all be 11/64, 6 1/2 long and 2 1/4 oz.

Overall it seems someone made a mistake on the label and in their record keeping as regards the rods weight and recommended line size. But, the rod seems to be marked correctly for the model and the period.

Tim C.

User avatar
Flyman615
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 6237
Joined: 12/21/04 19:00
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
Contact:

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#9

Post by Flyman615 »

Gee, 100,000+ rods produced by Orvis over the years and they made the occasional mistake on a tube label or inked inscription...who'd have thunk it??!!

Scott ;)
Flyman615

"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane

User avatar
JohnMD1022
Master Guide
Posts: 373
Joined: 10/02/09 18:00
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#10

Post by JohnMD1022 »

My Midge, purchased in1969 was marked as a 4 wt line.

I fished it with a #1 Kingfisher silk line.

Lerouxagain
Sport
Posts: 47
Joined: 09/11/12 07:44

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly Midge no. 2

#11

Post by Lerouxagain »

Hi, I recently bought a lot of nice Orvis bamboo rods which I was trying to sell on the forum . One of them was a orvis Midge # 2 serial number 52245 . There were some strange things about the markings on the tube , first off the Midge # 2 marking was a mystery and some folks I talk to who usually know something about these things didn't know what it was all about , second it was marked for a one tip rod yet there were two tips with the same serial numbers and the same hand wrote them and lastly it was marked on the tube and written on the rod 3 7/8 oz. and when I weighed the rod on a postal sale it weighed 3.5 oz. someone on the board actually pointed out to me that was a battenkill weight and not a midge and suggested I ping Greg reynolds which I was about to do anyway .
At first Greg said that someone must have just made a mistake on the weight and a second tip must have been ordered . It was at this point I sent him some photos and this was his response Wow Dan, you've made my day! It's a very rare Midge variant. I've never
seen a "Midge II", but I know more or less what it is. See this link that Greg wrote ..... , it explains a lot . I have included some photos . I am not a rod guy so if I messed something up in the translation oh well ... Thanks. Dan
viewtopic.php?t=144601%3Cbr
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

NewUtahCaneAngler
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 2382
Joined: 01/22/17 17:05
Location: Utah

Re: Orvis Midge anomaly

#12

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

Hi Dan:

So it appears that the weight on the rod and tube are anomalies and that at some point, an owner added a second tip. It is a nice rod, but is still a Madison version of the Midge taper with pre-Madison “II” markings just like the few Battenkill “II” versions floating around. Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
Joe

Post Reply

Return to “Collecting Bamboo Fly Rods”