Hardy Silex

[fefferje]

Could someone explain the mechanics of the Hardy Silex in terms of the way they cast line and the way their drags work?? My understanding is that it has a revolving soool more like a bait casting reel. Has anyone used a Silex as a fly reel?? The insides of them are so intricately beautiful that it I wonder what they would be like to use as a fly reel. Thanks, Jed.

[Brian K. Shaffer]

Jed - What a great question(!) as I have always wondered about these reels myself. Never held one though.
I have seen some really unique broken ones fixed up here and for sale there (yeah.. there).
A quick search pulled up a couple different pics of the guts :


Super Silex Bait Caster


Silex # 2 (note caption)


Silex Major

[oddsnrods]

The Hardy Silex reels were made in various incarnations by Hardy between the late 1880's and the early 1990. They were designed to cast artificial 'baits' directly off the drum of the reel, similar to modern baitcast/ multiplier reels, indeed some Silex's were designed to be used on top of the rod in similar fashion.

The long rod used would have had the reel positioned lower down the handle, similar to spey casting set-up. The reel would have been adjusted to the weight of the bait (as baitcaster reel) and swung out without touching the reel as the small felt pad inside acted like light finger pressure to prevent over-run.

The reels had very delicate mechanisims and lightweight spools or drums.

Silex reels could and have been used for spey type fly fishing, in larger sizes or with shooting heads, most models would have been 3 3/4" or 4", mostly too large for single handed rods. They are also mostly, or all, right hand wind and their one way check prevents them being turned for left hand wind. The casting handle on the back of Silex's from the 20's on could catch loose fly line possibly.

The mecanism is a type of 'drag' used as a fly reel, however, although I have an example of each of the several freshwater models , apart from the Jewell, I would not think they would be appropriate for most fly fishing applications, apart from possible double handed as mentioned.

Malcolm

Models shown are the first incarnations. 1898 and 1910 models, jewelled bearing and very free spinning. Drewett mentions in his book each would have taken about a day and a half to make , in this case by Walter Dingly himself who designed the original Silex mechanism while at Hardys. No felt pads here, the brass 'shoe' would have been perfectly fitted on a black wheel attached to the inside of the drum, made probably of the very hard wood 'lignum vitae', so durable and hard it was used as bearings on Victorian water (as in navigation) locks. The results is a very smooth and sensitive casting regulator.

[sovereign]

The two reels on your picture are from around 1908 to 1910 . My guess is that the Hardy Silexes started to be stamped then. Three Makers they were, c,w and D for Dingley, the man WHO probably invented the mecanism in the latest Hardy no.1 Silex-reel and Dingley left Hardys 1910/11 for his own when Hardys decided to introduce a much more simpel to make reel
-mecanism, the Hardy Silex no. 2. Your two Hardy Silexes no. 1 are two of the only 450 ever made and stamped by reel-maker William Dingley when employd by Hardy Brothers of Alnwick.we probably never will see reels of such quality again! Save and collect, good hunting! //steen
Ps: Pictured a Hardy Silex no. 1 33/4" close up, made by Hardy reel-maker Dingley around 1908, not mint but near by ! Enjoy ! Probably one of only 450 made and stamped by the the Hardy reel-maker Dingley, 7 sizes the Hardy Silex no. 1 ( until around 1903 a 3" to so actually 8 in all ) came in from 31/4" to 41/2" extra wide so very few made of each size! Good Hunting !

[KLNC]

I was fishing the Restigouche last year, and another fisherman had a Silex 2 in a spey size, around 4 1/4" on his rod. I found it incredibly tight and smooth, and didn't see any downside to using it on a double-hander. Having never handled one before, I was impressed. They may be the best built reels Hardy ever made just from the feel of them.

[fefferje]

If you used it as a Spey reel I am assuming you wouldn’t cast line off it but use it as a holder of the Spey line and cast off the rod as you would any other fly reel. Am I correct in this??? Wasn’t there a 3 1/4” size??? Couldn’t it be used on a single handed fly rod??? Jed

[oddsnrods]

Good to see some interest in Silex's. The reels I featured in my photo, are dates gleaned from Drewett's book. Both 4" they are named The Silex and were the first models. One on the right with handle bar, Drewet dates as 1889, with the 3 rim controls. The reel on the left is a mint example and is dated in 'the book' as 1904-1910.

Yes Dingley made both, but left Hardys following a disagreement with the brothers over patent rights regarding (presumably) the Silex mechanism.

Any direct drive could be used as a fly reel, single handed or otherwise, Silex's as such would not just be my 'cup of tea' with their double handles and the rear casting knob. Most of all the redundent mechanism, inside all geared for another type of fishing.

For double handed fishing Silex's, Major's even the first model could well fit the bill in the larger sizes in order to balance the cane. Indeed LR Hardy landed a 40lb Norway salmon on a Hardy Longstone reel which was an all round angling reel described as much in their early catalogues. One should be wary however as all early Silex's had some very long feet..

Here' the largest 4 1/2" Super Silex from the 30's with some fly D/H fly line on it, was fine but I have other Hardy reels which I can use L/H which I found I enjoy using more, the frame pillars also are not designed for fly line to be pulled around them, so care would be needed to pull fly line out from the front without touching the frame, which could either remove the reel finish or damge the line.

Malcolm

[WallaceWatson]

Just a bit of clarification.
According to Drewett
a) the Hardy reel makers began stamping their initial in 1905 so both reels in Oddsndrods' post are from 1905 to 1910.
b) Around 450 first model Silexes were made each year. So over 10/12 years that could be around 4,500 to 5,000 reels. Dingley probably made at least one third of those. Therefore, that's about 1,500 to 2,000 made by Dingley of which about half would have his D stamp.
Here are three more Dingley made Silexes - 3.75", 4" and 4.5" wide drum.

Doesn't look like the photo downloaded??

[sovereign]

Just a bit of clarification.
According to Drewett
a) the Hardy reel makers began stamping their initial in 1905 so both reels in Oddsndrods' post are from 1905 to 1910.
b) Around 450 first model Silexes were made each year. So over 10/12 years that could be around 4,500 to 5,000 reels. Dingley probably made at least one third of those. Therefore, that's about 1,500 to 2,000 made by Dingley of which about half would have his D stamp.
Here are three more Dingley made Silexes - 3.75", 4" and 4.5" wide drum.

Doesn't look like the photo downloaded??

Yes that's what's can be read in Drewetts wonderful book, but I'm not sure it was so, production numbers per year yes ! three makers yes, never seen a Hardy Silex no. 1 stamped with other initials than C,D or W, but you can also see on the outside if you can expect your reel to be stamped inside, you can see it on the visible agate in the spool-locker, My guess is that the changes came around 1908, at least I'm sure that many, many Hardy Silexes from 1904/05 to 1908 ? are unstamped. Pictured here a Hardy Silex 41/2" before 1908 ? unstamped and a Hardy Silex 41/2" stamped D, my guess for the Dingley-stamped reel is that's is an early stamping (from when the idea of stamping came up), the D on the brass isn't as nice to look at and as visible as the stamping in the reel-cage bottom so the later became the praccis used. // Steen. Ps: the last picture a Hardy Silex no. 1 41/2" extra wide stamped D, they were made only between 1908 and 1910 in this size.PPS: last, last picture two Hardy Silexes no.1 41/2" photoed from the side at left the extra
Wide.

[WallaceWatson]

I rely heavily on the Drewett book. JD had unprecedented access to Hardy's records and personnel and I feel that he is the real expert. According to him the final set up of the reel with the loop presser, regulator screw and milled wheel check was established between 1899 and when it was first illustrated in the 1902 catalogue. The agate bearing was introduced in 1903/4. So, most Silexes were made with these characteristics and it is not possible to attribute a particular year to their manufacture except for the initial stamped inside which he seems to be sure was started in 1905. Therefore no initial = pre 1905 / initial = post 1905 (with a little overlap of course).

[60InchDV8]

The Silex is one of my favorite fly reels for trout, steelhead and salmon fishing. Hardy made it in trout and salmon sizes and it can be used with single, double hand or spey rods. This handsome reel is similar in appearance to the classic trout or Salmon St George and looks great on a bamboo rod. I’m impressed with the classic beauty, unique design and the versatility of this hand made reel. My favorites are the early 1914 era models with the classic 3 screw centre plate spool release and the twin ivorine handles and free spool lever.

[sovereign]

Your picture shows us two Hardy Silexes no. 2 ( 1911-1922 ) your reels are made after or during 1912, the spool-locker shows me that. If in size 41/2" the left is an extra wide they are really rare. // Steen

[flyrodman]

From the largest Silex to the smallest made, Silex No. 2 at 2 7/8 inches. Made around 1913 - 14 for a period of 3 years. This is the only Silex made with the drop down latch. Letter W imprinted on the case, most likely by Arthur Wall. Few minor scratches on the spool caused when in the past, drop down latch screws were not loosened enough to remove the spool.

[headwaters]

What a find; beautiful, Richie!

Rupert

[john8]

I have 4 Silex reels in size from 3 3/4” to 4 1/2”, as others have noted they can be used as reel on fly rods. However also as noted there are better options if you want a classic reel, like a Perfect, etc. The Silex reel handles are very close together too close to the center (axle) of the reel for my taste and feel. Also as noted the lever can allow line to hang up on it, etc. The reels were well made and have a good feel to them but I would rather use a Perfect or other reel on a fly rod over a Silex.

[sovereign]

From the largest Silex to the smallest made, Silex No. 2 at 2 7/8 inches. Made around 1913 - 14 for a period of 3 years. This is the only Silex made with the drop down latch. Letter W imprinted on the case, most likely by Arthur Wall. Few minor scratches on the spool caused when in the past, drop down latch screws were not loosened enough to remove the spool. // What a beautiful Hardy Silex no.2 you have ! The letter W in your reel stands for Hardy reel-maker jackei Waugh, at Hardys between 1893-1916. Arthur Wall, at Hardys between 1901-1939 stamped his reels AHW. Pictured here a Hardy Silex no. 2 in the smallest 27/8" made by Wall,AHW and a Silex no. 4" ca. 1908-1910 made by Waugh W. // Steen

[dder]

Good posts on Silex,s and some interesting info on dating them. I somehow thought that the Bowtie handles the Ones mounted to the extra bar rather than directly to spool face were earlier made. Can anyone confirm that or not and if so what year were the no longer used. I know Dingley continued to use them after he left Hardys. Have a 4 1/2 Hardy marked The Silex and Hardy,s Pat. on back ,not other markings on outside but does have a D stamp inside. It has the agate bearing in spool (so after 1903-4?) also. Some how I though it was older from around 1904 maybe because of the Hardy pat stamp and thought that the extra bar with handles mounted to it was stopped by Hardys around then too.But having the D stamp would mean made after 1905 according to the Drewett book, or 1908 or later according to Steen. I just looked in the Dunkeld Collection book and it states that the 3 control models were made from 1904-1910. I have a print out from an unknow book, page 55 and 56 that states the silex reels had one rim control 1896-1903, 2 rim controls,1903-1906 and 3 rim controls 1906-1911. same printout says the aluminium handle bar was used1896-1909 and handles mounted directly to drum(spool)1910-1911. This of course is contrary to the Dunkeld book and what has been stated in posts on thread already. Does Drewetts book say anything about the handle bar mount and does anyone know what years the Hardys Pat and The Silex stamps were used on reel frames? Sorry for length and any help appreciated. Thanks all . Daryl

[drbaits]

I caught the Silex bug a few years ago and this little 2 3/4” Silex Multiplier has become a favorite in my collection. Fished rings up, it casts sorta like a baitcaster in reverse... pressing down on the bar during the cast puts reel into free spool.

[flyrodman]

I caught the Silex bug a few years ago and this little 2 3/4” Silex Multiplier has become a favorite in my collection. Fished rings up, it casts sorta like a baitcaster in reverse... pressing down on the bar during the cast puts reel into free spool.

A real beauty

[sovereign]

Good posts on Silex,s and some interesting info on dating them. I somehow thought that the Bowtie handles the Ones mounted to the extra bar rather than directly to spool face were earlier made. Can anyone confirm that or not and if so what year were the no longer used. I know Dingley continued to use them after he left Hardys. Have a 4 1/2 Hardy marked The Silex and Hardy,s Pat. on back ,not other markings on outside but does have a D stamp inside. It has the agate bearing in spool (so after 1903-4?) also. Some how I though it was older from around 1904 maybe because of the Hardy pat stamp and thought that the extra bar with handles mounted to it was stopped by Hardys around then too.But having the D stamp would mean made after 1905 according to the Drewett book, or 1908 or later according to Steen. I just looked in the Dunkeld Collection book and it states that the 3 control models were made from 1904-1910. I have a print out from an unknow book, page 55 and 56 that states the silex reels had one rim control 1896-1903, 2 rim controls,1903-1906 and 3 rim controls 1906-1911. same printout says the aluminium handle bar was used1896-1909 and handles mounted directly to drum(spool)1910-1911. This of course is contrary to the Dunkeld book and what has been stated in posts on thread already. Does Drewetts book say anything about the handle bar mount and does anyone know what years the Hardys Pat and The Silex stamps were used on reel frames? Sorry for length and any help appreciated. Thanks all . Daryl

// I tried to look it upp, when the Hardy Silex no.1 went from cross-bar handle to two knops ( All other Hardy Silexes has two knops no cross-bar. Couldn't find anything in my books, same as you mentioned + a couple more and the Evans tapes about Hardy-reels) As I can see from my own reels it seems that the biggest sizes 41/2" and 41/2" extra wide all has cross-bar handle, I haven't seen a 41/4 " but my 4" and sizes under with reel-makers stamp all has two handels mounted direct on the spool-sometime around 1908 may be the handle was changed ? Pictures: a 4" Hardy no.1 in the last model with three breaks, cross-bar handle and no reel-makers letter 1904/05 to 1907/08 ? and then a 4" Hardy Silex no. 1 with handles direkt on the spool stamped D for Hardy reel-maker Dingley age 1908-1910 ( my guess ) Enjoy !