International Fly Rods & Equipment

This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board.

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Flykuni3
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Re: "Foreign" Fly Rods & Equipment

#41

Post by Flykuni3 »

16pmd wrote:
09/28/19 23:07
I've had the chance to cast and fish some outstanding recent Japanese rods and consider them up there with some of the best American rods in terms of craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty and casting qualities. Not long ago, most Japanese rods were styled after American classics like Paynes and Leonards and mostly in short light line models for Japanese fish and fishing. They were excellent, but to my mind basically very nice copies of those American classics. More recently, however, they have been making rods in the American style with some of the latest American innovations and some of their own, like using Japanese-grown bamboo. They have adopted hollowbuilding, glass and graphite ferrules, and longer rods suited to larger American waters and fish. They have interacted with top American makers like Per Brandin, Leon Hanson, Tom Morgan, and others and learned from them. 7 1/2-8 1/2' rods for 3-6 wt. lines with medium fast American-style actions are part of their lineups. Rods from many makers are crafted with typically meticulous Japanese care, are aesthetically excellent and have outstanding casting qualities.

Some of the ones I've cast and fished are by Kanjiro Nakao, Shuichi Akimaru, Masa Akaike, and Masa Takemoto, who recently won the Hardy Cup casting competition in the U.S. again this year with one of his rods. I'm sure there are other good makers I'm not familiar with. The major hitch is that they're not widely available here, though the makers above have all been to the U.S. with their rods. Quite a few people who've had a chance to try them have ended up buying them, so I think their acceptance here is likely to spread.
Agree with this guy, seems to know whut he’s talkin’ ‘bout.

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dale
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Re: "Foreign" Fly Rods & Equipment

#42

Post by dale »

Flykuni3 wrote:
08/30/20 21:46
16pmd wrote:
09/28/19 23:07
I've had the chance to cast and fish some outstanding recent Japanese rods and consider them up there with some of the best American rods in terms of craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty and casting qualities. Not long ago, most Japanese rods were styled after American classics like Paynes and Leonards and mostly in short light line models for Japanese fish and fishing. They were excellent, but to my mind basically very nice copies of those American classics. More recently, however, they have been making rods in the American style with some of the latest American innovations and some of their own, like using Japanese-grown bamboo. They have adopted hollowbuilding, glass and graphite ferrules, and longer rods suited to larger American waters and fish. They have interacted with top American makers like Per Brandin, Leon Hanson, Tom Morgan, and others and learned from them. 7 1/2-8 1/2' rods for 3-6 wt. lines with medium fast American-style actions are part of their lineups. Rods from many makers are crafted with typically meticulous Japanese care, are aesthetically excellent and have outstanding casting qualities.

Some of the ones I've cast and fished are by Kanjiro Nakao, Shuichi Akimaru, Masa Akaike, and Masa Takemoto, who recently won the Hardy Cup casting competition in the U.S. again this year with one of his rods. I'm sure there are other good makers I'm not familiar with. The major hitch is that they're not widely available here, though the makers above have all been to the U.S. with their rods. Quite a few people who've had a chance to try them have ended up buying them, so I think their acceptance here is likely to spread.
Agree with this guy, seems to know whut he’s talkin’ ‘bout.
+1

Dale

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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#43

Post by Gravity »

I think that a "foreign fly rods" forum would be great. There is some good information on Pezon & Michel at:

https://splitcaneinfo.com/wp-content/up ... -Story.pdf

and at:

https://splitcaneinfo.com/wp-content/up ... l-19yy.pdf

The Hexrod forum carries tapers for the P&M Fario Club and for the Sharpes version. There are some differences in what is shown so I'm not sure what the "correct" one may be.

wab
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#44

Post by wab »

I’m interested in learning more about sharpes rods. Are they mostly considered production rods? Were there any well known builders through the years? Why the tendency for sharpes to make rods or blanks for other US shops?

The second bamboo rod I purchased was a cortland 444 6.5’ 2 1/4 oz marked for a five weight line, impregnated, made by sharpes. Is this identical to any of the sharpes models? I think it’s a neat little rod. Certainly a little faster then some of its American counterparts(that I have handled) with similar length/weight.

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czkid
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#45

Post by czkid »

Hopefully some of our UK brethren can lend some light onto your question. I've not seen any detailed discussions on Sharpes, although I have a couple and find them to be great rods.

Bill Terry
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#46

Post by Bill Terry »

Regarding Japanese rods, Scott Fly Rod Co. markets rods “designed and built in collaboration with Naoki Hashemoto of Hokkaido, Japan,” whatever that means. I looked at one of them at a Denver shop, and it looked very nice. However, they are quite expensive ($3600), and they only come in 3- and 4-wt rods of 7’ 2” and 7’ 7”, which don’t interest me.
Ad piscatoribus sunt omnes res secundi.

16pmd
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#47

Post by 16pmd »

Trying to keep this thread about non-U.S. rods alive;

A terrific book on Japanese rods is Mostly Bamboo by Yuki Bando. It's in English and features 18 Japanese bamboo rodmakers with a couple of glass rod makers included. Pricey in the physical edition, but $28 in the Kindle (electronic) version and very much worth it for the in-depth description of some innovative Japanese bamboo rods and their makers. Yuki lived and worked in the U.S., so is very familiar with American rods as well as modern Japanese ones, so has a perspective that allows comparisons. The forward to his book is by Glenn Brackett.

One of the makers profiled in the book is Masa Takemoto, who just won the Hardy Cup (again) in a bamboo casting competition this past summer at the Catskill Center, using a 5 wt. rod that he designed and made. His rods are unique in many respects - hollow, but with internal bamboo braces in some cases and also hollow rods that are quads with slender extra strips at the four corners, so eight-sided and highly innovative. His rods are terrific casters and made with typical Japanese attention to meticulous craftsmanship and aesthetic qualities. Their casting performance is in the league with the very best modern American rods.

PYochim
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#48

Post by PYochim »

czkid wrote:
11/15/19 10:21
There exists, in the US, a sense of xenophobia (fear/distrust of things foreign) to varying degrees. Many of us have noted this in the world of bamboo rods, with some exceptions.
A little late to this discussion but I disagree with this. For many here the mention of a modern US made disc drag reel such as Nautilus, Hatch, etc… sends them into orbit. It evokes the same angst as the mention of graphite rods. That while they fish their English made Hardy reels.

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JohnMD1022
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#49

Post by JohnMD1022 »

wab wrote:
10/28/21 18:57
I’m interested in learning more about sharpes rods. Are they mostly considered production rods? Were there any well known builders through the years? Why the tendency for sharpes to make rods or blanks for other US shops?

The second bamboo rod I purchased was a cortland 444 6.5’ 2 1/4 oz marked for a five weight line, impregnated, made by sharpes. Is this identical to any of the sharpes models? I think it’s a neat little rod. Certainly a little faster then some of its American counterparts(that I have handled) with similar length/weight.
I bought the same rod in 1970. It was my second bamboo rod,

I eventually bought two more one being the prototype sent to Cortland.

I still have the first, the other two

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ARTHURK
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#50

Post by ARTHURK »

Well said Nelson,

I have not been active at the Forum but I still fish my Japan made modern cane rods with great pleasure. My Takemoto rod ( similar to the Hardy Cup rod) is unique as it bends deep and once you match its rhythm, can launch the fly quite a distance… otherwise, just enjoy the relaxing yet accurate casting.

I also enjoy Katsumi Harada’s rods and have ordered many bait-finesse style baitcasting models from him other than owning a fly rod of his local madake cane manufacture. Beautiful work and very smooth action rods.

I have always admired the near perfect construction of my Kagerow Kei rod. Sharp edges at the penta edges where the cane is laminated together & with no open seams! I can imagine how sharp and fine those individual strips were… having sliced up my fingers working on a my projects hahahaha.

Cheers
Arthur
16pmd wrote:
10/23/23 17:07
Trying to keep this thread about non-U.S. rods alive;

A terrific book on Japanese rods is Mostly Bamboo by Yuki Bando. It's in English and features 18 Japanese bamboo rodmakers with a couple of glass rod makers included. Pricey in the physical edition, but $28 in the Kindle (electronic) version and very much worth it for the in-depth description of some innovative Japanese bamboo rods and their makers. Yuki lived and worked in the U.S., so is very familiar with American rods as well as modern Japanese ones, so has a perspective that allows comparisons. The forward to his book is by Glenn Brackett.

One of the makers profiled in the book is Masa Takemoto, who just won the Hardy Cup (again) in a bamboo casting competition this past summer at the Catskill Center, using a 5 wt. rod that he designed and made. His rods are unique in many respects - hollow, but with internal bamboo braces in some cases and also hollow rods that are quads with slender extra strips at the four corners, so eight-sided and highly innovative. His rods are terrific casters and made with typical Japanese attention to meticulous craftsmanship and aesthetic qualities. Their casting performance is in the league with the very best modern American rods.

Boo
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#51

Post by Boo »

I now have 4 “foreign made” rods in my small collection. A later model Hardy Fairchild 8’ 3pc/5wt. and 3 French made Pezon & Michel rods - 2 are P&M Colorado’s 7’7” (5wts) from different eras and now a P&M Super Marvel 7’2” 4/5wt. I enjoy each one of them.

PGarrett
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#52

Post by PGarrett »

To keep this discussion going..

All the bamboo rods I own are "foreign" (ie not American made), but <member ducks> I do have some "cheap" Chinese knock-offs of classic American tapers. I'd love to get hold of some genuine early American rods to compare as they all cast beautifully.

Of the classic (original) rods I own (or jointly own with my son, as they are all "Family Heirlooms"), I have four Hardy's (Two Gold Medals and two "Monogram Dry Fly Rod"s and three Farlow's, including a double handed "Dry Fly Salmon Rod". I also have two Australian rods, a Turville "Venus" from the 1950s and a McGinn "Creewah" from the 1980s. I'm documenting the latter two for inclusion on Hexrod as details about them are difficult to find. The Hardy "Monograms" (both from 1938) are the real mystery (as discussed on this thread). The two I have both have "Aust. and N.Zealand" on the butt cap (see below), adding further to the mystery.

I don't have a particular view on whether such "foreign" rods need a dedicated forum.


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moregrayling
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#53

Post by moregrayling »

PGarrett wrote:
03/15/24 03:27
... The two I have both have "Aust. and N.Zealand" on the butt cap (see below), adding further to the mystery ...
No mystery there. Hardy used to label for customes. Iin Europe it is, for instance, not very uncommon to run into Hardy reels labeled for the tackle house of Leon Seutin of Brussels, Belgium, who was at one time (we are talking 1920s and 1930s) the sole agent for Hardy tackle for Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg and Germany (except Bavaria; Stork in Munich was the agent there).
Best,
Christian

Them, that knows nowt, fears nowt!

PGarrett
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Re: International Fly Rods & Equipment

#54

Post by PGarrett »

moregrayling wrote:
03/15/24 06:23
PGarrett wrote:
03/15/24 03:27
... The two I have both have "Aust. and N.Zealand" on the butt cap (see below), adding further to the mystery ...
No mystery there. Hardy used to label for customes. Iin Europe it is, for instance, not very uncommon to run into Hardy reels labeled for the tackle house of Leon Seutin of Brussels, Belgium, who was at one time (we are talking 1920s and 1930s) the sole agent for Hardy tackle for Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg and Germany (except Bavaria; Stork in Munich was the agent there).
Sure, although within "the Empire", Hardy rods were traded freely. The interesting thing about those labelled "Monogram" is that they appear to not have been sold in the UK at all (?) and to have been labelled and finished differently for different markets (for example, mine have intermediate wraps wheras N. American versions don't. The real mystery is that they do not appear in any known Hardy catalogues or in the official company records, although some have put this down to the proximity of WW2 and the virtually shutdown of the company - and UK rod making generally - during that period.

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