"Historic" Thread

or however that dang word is written! : ) Use this forum to discuss those things that are related to, directly, or indirectly, fly fishing, i.e., tackle, catalogs, single malt scotch, cigar preferences, pipes, camera gear, etc. This is sort of an off topic area but one related to bamboo and fly fishing.

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oldschoolcane
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#61

Post by oldschoolcane »

Snorider, and you said
I disagree with you on the need for black powder with Damascus barrels many thousand were nitro proof tested after the change to smokeless powder.

My comment was based upon how I shoot, and it has no bearing on what you do. I didn't say you need to use BP. You are welcome to make snide arrogant 10 year old comments all you want, I am sorry I have better things to do with my time.

snorider
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#62

Post by snorider »

Seabowisha Salmo T wrote: snowrider, i suspect you know there was twist steel and there was quality damascus iron and steel used in firearm barrels. quality damascus barrels were considered to be superior to fluid steel barrels WHEN in proper condition as they tended to expand slightly instead of splitting which would cause disastrous loss of body parts. problems arose when twist and damascus were becoming thought interchangeable by too many gunners; and too many damascus barrels were being burst by different causes, rust (not always discover-able) at any of the hundreds of welds being one of the most pernicious. damascus barrels IN PROOF are usually good to fire.
happy shooting, jim w
Indeed I do! I am the happy owner of a small collection of fine pattern welded ( the correct term) gun barrels attached to some lovely English sxs's. I have shot and handled hundreds of em; they put a smile on my face every time. Some of the finest (Woodward etc) were struck with very thin walls for lightness and they still pass nitro proof to this day. The twist barrels were usually on cut rate Belgian and US guns and failures usually occurred as a result of pitting just beyond the forcing cone from corrosive powders. The breech failures so often shown to scare owners of these "inferior" gun barrels are the result of obstruction and/or gross overloading. Sherman Bell and Tom Ambruster destroyed some of these guns in 06' to 09' (detailed in the double gun journal) and it took MASSIVE proof house exceeding loads to blow them up. I have purchased several "dangerous" guns over the years including a 1925 Parker C grade 20ga with the finest star damascus I have ever laid eyes on, for pennies on the dollar.

Look up the definition of Civility old timer.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it. T.R.

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Titelines
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#63

Post by Titelines »

Gnome wrote:Wow shame on me for trying to make a living at fly fishing!! Wonder if that tact is taken with others who do make their living at flyfishing Like Gary Borger or Jack Dennis or Joan Wulf or Per Brandin?? the list is endless.
Another successful troll from new jersey. And You Bet I am charging for my DVDs too much time and effort to do it and then give it away to trolls!!
Well, there's a proper forum for rod and reel makers to advertise their wares here at the Classic Fly Rod Forum. Unfortunately, this is not that forum.

Mark

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Gnome
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#64

Post by Gnome »

So I am not supposed to talk about a project that directly relates to the basis of this thread?? History?

GRASSNGLASS
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#65

Post by GRASSNGLASS »

This would make a wonderful soap opera on some outdoor channel.

Barry

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Short Tip
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#66

Post by Short Tip »

GRASSNGLASS wrote:This would make a wonderful soap opera on some outdoor channel.

Barry
:popcorn

GRASSNGLASS
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#67

Post by GRASSNGLASS »

It should probably run between "As the Reel Turns" and the "No Fiberglass Allowed" shows.

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Titelines
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#68

Post by Titelines »

Gnome wrote:So I am not supposed to talk about a project that directly relates to the basis of this thread?? History?
Well, lets take a look at the forum rules:

"Solicitation and Spamming - Do not use this forum as a vehicle to advertise items for sale or commercial services. Prohibited advertising includes soft-sell techniques of offering promotions or sponsoring contests with associated commercial value. For exceptions to this ban, please see the Classifieds Forum. Do not post identical posts in different forums . If you wish to announce a new product offering, please use the Rod and Reel Makers Forum. Authors announcing a new book should use the Book Talk Forum."

So nope, the only two places you can mention something like that are either the Classifieds Forum, or the Rod and Reel Makers forum, which is where you initially posted your DVD's.

I'm sure the there are plenty of rodmakers or reel smith's who would like to advertise their wares in other forums, but they play by the rules and don't do it.

You've been a member of this forum for a long enough time to know better.

Mark

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#69

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

snorider wrote:
Seabowisha Salmo T wrote: snowrider, i suspect you know there was twist steel and there was quality damascus iron and steel used in firearm barrels. quality damascus barrels were considered to be superior to fluid steel barrels WHEN in proper condition as they tended to expand slightly instead of splitting which would cause disastrous loss of body parts. problems arose when twist and damascus were becoming thought interchangeable by too many gunners; and too many damascus barrels were being burst by different causes, rust (not always discover-able) at any of the hundreds of welds being one of the most pernicious. damascus barrels IN PROOF are usually good to fire.
happy shooting, jim w
Indeed I do! I am the happy owner of a small collection of fine pattern welded ( the correct term) gun barrels attached to some lovely English sxs's. I have shot and handled hundreds of em; they put a smile on my face every time. Some of the finest (Woodward etc) were struck with very thin walls for lightness and they still pass nitro proof to this day. The twist barrels were usually on cut rate Belgian and US guns and failures usually occurred as a result of pitting just beyond the forcing cone from corrosive powders. The breech failures so often shown to scare owners of these "inferior" gun barrels are the result of obstruction and/or gross overloading. Sherman Bell and Tom Ambruster destroyed some of these guns in 06' to 09' (detailed in the double gun journal) and it took MASSIVE proof house exceeding loads to blow them up. I have purchased several "dangerous" guns over the years including a 1925 Parker C grade 20ga with the finest star damascus I have ever laid eyes on, for pennies on the dollar.

Look up the definition of Civility old timer.
snow, . . . . c grade is i believe the least common grade. very nice engraving. are you familiar with papered barrels? parker brothers were notorious for papering fluid steel barrels. the star was one of the patterns most commonly utilized. if you know the signs, papering is not too hard to recognize. many, many thousands of double guns were destroyed, rebarrelled. and otherwise retired because the owners were afraid their barrels were not fluid steel.
regards, jim w

snorider
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#70

Post by snorider »

Not papered, just about as fine as any "best" grade gun from england.I have heard that parker bros sourced the barrels from liege. I still have horrible sellers remorse....
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it. T.R.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#71

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

snorider wrote:Not papered, just about as fine as any "best" grade gun from england.I have heard that parker bros sourced the barrels from liege. I still have horrible sellers remorse....

according to charlie maddox, the higher grade barrels did come from over the waters.

regards, jim w

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czkid
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#72

Post by czkid »

Can we cut back on the gun posts please? This is of course a fly fishing and bamboo rod forum. The earlier ties were fine, but it seems we're off on an exclusively gun making run.

Thanks, Ralph

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Gnome
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#73

Post by Gnome »

Shoot, way more important than discussing a project directly related to Bamboo rods and history;-)

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roycestearns
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#74

Post by roycestearns »

Wasn't the intent of this thread to be an Annals replacement? Annals wandered off into the esoteric of written musings, musical instruments, guns, baseball, grandkids, travel, books, and contests with very thin connections to bamboo/flyfishing.

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Pentalux
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#75

Post by Pentalux »

Royce,
Not sure but I do not believe Ralph ever intended this "Historic" thread (with an option of a new subform for) as another place to randomly discuss anything. Seems he was more offering a place here to focus the "Historic" threads and the invitation to expound similarly to how some did on that now defunct site. There sadly does seem to be a need for a section where people can behave poorly towards each other but I really do not think that was the intention of this thread.

...
The previously written piece on Early American Rods 1860 has been deleted - clearly not the place for it. My apologies.
Last edited by Pentalux on 06/14/20 23:55, edited 2 times in total.

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czkid
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#76

Post by czkid »

Exactly what the topic is for..... Just keep it up.

Unfortunately the Annals was heavily populated by folks that were "excused" from the Forum. They kept it together initially but then some reverted to their previous persona.

More inputs similar to the above would ensure that this experiment survives.

Ralph

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roycestearns
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#77

Post by roycestearns »

Pentalux, Nice start to a historical thought, but in a single thread it may as well be on facebook.
Once again, Ralph's "deplorables" comment ices the flow. so I'll leave this one alone.

oneculm
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#78

Post by oneculm »

The Annals was not populated by folks who were excused from the forum. Yes there were a few similar to how a few good folks have been recently excused from this forum. The owner of the Annals was at a point that he just wanted to move on. There were no persona problems as Ralph would like people to think. Dave Male

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czkid
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#79

Post by czkid »

Something Really Historic....

Our Man Jeff, otherwise known as "The Gnome" has gone to great lengths to fulfill a gap in things "historical" with his series of DVDs on his "Traveling Museum" collection. Jeff has forwarded me a few of the DVDs to comment on since he and I have been conversing back and forth over the years. Both Basye and I have reviewed these with great interest (Yes... females do find these interesting) and I thought this an appropriate spot to comment.

Let me be frank, Jeff, "The Gnome", is a horse of a different color... so to speak. Possibly slightly eccentric, opinionated, and crotchety.... but likewise talented and willing to explore different venues. Maybe not everyone's "cup of tea", but Jeff is Jeff and that's plain OK. I own one of his rods... different, and I love it, we've got some of his trinkets, and they are wonderful, and now come these DVDs. If you take the time to absorb them, they are going to give you an education and the answer to many a question you maybe never thought to ask. You will certainly become more appreciative of the rods you own, because you will now have a sense of what went into them, and maybe why it went in. There is information there that's certainly not readily available in your everyday reading!

The information is presented in an orderly and readily consumable manner, with great photography and a simple straightforward dialog that is understandable to all. My bride loved the bit about early female rod makers, and the why's and wherefores' of some of the innovations. As a bit of an artist she could appreciate the reasons and methodologies of the decoration and function of the various enhancements over the years. As a fisherwoman she appreciates the improvements in "fishability" that these resulted in.

Let's hope that the reception that these DVDs receive encourages Jeff to continue the series up into some of the more "modern" houses.

Ralph

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Gnome
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Re: "Historic" Thread

#80

Post by Gnome »

Ralph,

edit; Definitely eccentric and I have always walked my own path, someday maybe I will have a place alongside some of the other "characters of fly fishing" The pointy red hat is sort of well known;-)

Thanks and the series will end up at 2010 and I am now just getting into the classical era and the rods from that time, I wish I had examples of all of the classical makers to film but maybe that can be an addition after the initial run is done, I hope to someday be able to film rods from Carmichael and Garrison, etc just can not afford them due to their high price and my low income that just don't match up well. A labor of love and I am honored that people are enjoying this new look at the old sticks.

humbly yours

Jeff

P.S. and I am glad that the ladies are enjoying it as well, that humbles me to no end!

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