Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

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uniquafly
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#41

Post by uniquafly »

This thread is wonderful reading! Thanks guys, for contributing the historical information and photos of some beautiful fly rods. Your time spent researching, gathering and posting the information is well appreciated here.
“He told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman.”

Norman Maclean

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teter
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#42

Post by teter »

Here is a 10'6" (or would be at full length) Bangor Leonard with the early maker's mark. It originally came with two mids, but only had one when I got it. The tips are both short but the rod is in very good shape otherwise. I showed it to Jerry during the Leonard gathering in Livingstone Manor a couple of years ago.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#43

Post by jeffkn1 »

Woodlakejag wrote:Jeff, thank you very much for posting this and please thank Mr. Girard as well. Was this published in his FE Thomas book? Or somewhere else?
I don't remember whether I answered your question directly. Some of the information was in the Thomas book but not all, and all of Jerry's paper is thoroughly cited in the endnotes.
There's obviously a lot more to the Leonard story. Jerry just bought two lots of stereo views that include several images of Hiram from the Sebec hatchery days in the mid-1870's. Two of the images have Hiram anchored in his canoe and fishing. Of the two, one served as a model for a painting executed by Lizzie Leonard. When you look in Keane's book you'll see an image that appears to be a photograph of that painting. If you have Keane, you know which image that is. Goes without saying the original photos are better.
Besides the hatchery story, which Jerry continues to gather material for, there's also the longterm impact of Mills marketing, the tournament participation, exposition participation, personnel changes, and more.

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Gnome
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#44

Post by Gnome »

one thing with the Mills and their advertising in Forest & Stream Rod & Gun is the fact that their adds seemed to always be right above the adds from The Conroy firms and this seems to be consistent from the early to mid 1880s and right through to the 1910-1920 period, advertising scoops??? seems like the Mills adds are always taking aside shots at the Conroy's, if the Conroy's advertised Florida tackle there was the Mills above them and first when read. Makes you wonder how they arranged for their adds to always be on top of the Conroy Adds and especially in the 1890's to 1910 time frame.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#45

Post by Woodlakejag »

Thanks Jeff, that’s great news. I know the picture in keanes book you reference above and would love to see more. Hopefully there’s a book or expanded article in the works.
I have a somewhat related research question I am trying to run down and was wondering if you’d ask Jerry a question for me. In the Chasing the Taper documentary Per Brandin holds up a picture of the Leonard shop and reads some notes regarding who is in the picture. I sent Per an email and asked him about the picture, he said it was copy of a picture owned by Jerry. He said the notes he reads in the film are his own based on what Jerry told him.
Anyway, a copy of the same picture appears in Hoagy’s book “8” at page 64, with some people labeled by Alice Payne.
I am wondering what exactly the notations are on Jerrys copy and if he knows who made them.
Thanks!
George
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#46

Post by Woodlakejag »

Jeff, here’s why I ask:
In addition to Jerry’s image, there are two images (that I know of) of the Leonard employees outside the Central Valley shop and the images are different in what I think is a very significant way. One has Hiram with eight other people and the other has Hiram with five other people. There are leaves on the trees in the second photo, the grass is a little longer, the woman in the window is gone, and Hiram is looking down at the ground. Which of his employees are now missing and why? I have a guess and I think we can all enjoy pondering that one a bit!

Here’s the first image, from Hoagy Carmichael’s book “8” (posted with permission of the author)


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Here’s, the second, from a 1979 article by Mary Kelly and available for free download from the American Museum of Fly fishing. This one is mislabeled as being Bangor.
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2dabacking
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#47

Post by 2dabacking »

Nice detective work, gentlemen! Following with great interest.

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cwfly
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#48

Post by cwfly »

As you mentioned, other than some handwriting the image that Jerry has and that Hoagy included in "8" are the same image. In fact, and perhaps of some meaning, both images have an "X" just above Fred Thomas' head.

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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#49

Post by Pentalux »

Almost like a picture taken when they first got there and then maybe with the initial crew after they remodeled the interior for production and as seen in pic, sided the original stone building. Hard to tell but almost looks like it got a new roof too - amazing to see them both like that - Thank you all for posting!

Very curious what the building was prior to Leonard? Anyone know what it was or who owned it prior to Leonard??

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#50

Post by Woodlakejag »

I don’t think there are changes to the building, that bottom picture just isn’t very clear, but the stone is only on the foundation.
The top picture, in my opinion, is prior to 1889.
I think the bottom picture shows the remaining employees, after Fred Thomas, Loman Hawes, and Eustis Edwards left to start the Kosmic Rod Company in 1889.
I am of the opinion that Leonard’s pose in the second picture, turned to the side and looking at the ground, is absolutely intentional, and shows his sadness (regret?) after losing three of his most gifted apprentices. Pictures of this era took a long time to set up and subjects had to hold still for long periods to get the shot. The poses were intentional, and this one is a window into one of the most remarkable events in the history of American rodmaking.
My two cents
George
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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#51

Post by Pentalux »

Very interesting perspective - makes sense - looking closely again, your right my monitor had them looking like stone blocks - (?)

Thanks again for posting - super cool!

Still curious who owned the building prior to Leonard though. Was there a pond on the premises? How did he power his tools??

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#52

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

Pentalux wrote:Very interesting perspective - makes sense - looking closely again, your right my monitor had them looking like stone blocks - (?)

Thanks again for posting - super cool!

Still curious who owned the building prior to Leonard though. Was there a pond on the premises? How did he power his tools??
hello, rob, . . .a good guess would be one of those ultra modern steam jennys.
regards, jim w

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#53

Post by Woodlakejag »

The building was on Laura Lane in Central Valley, NY, which was on Woodbury Creek. Here is a picture of it identified on a 1903 map of Central Valley:
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Here’s a picture from 1881 that shows the back of the building and Woodbury Creek:
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And a picture from 1903 when a third story was added
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And a current map that I marked with a yellow square where I think the building would have stood before it burned down in 1964.
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#54

Post by Woodlakejag »

Oh, I just noticed something else on that 1903 map. Just down the road on Summit Ave are the residences of H. L. Leonard and Reuben Leonard
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And if I go into street view on google earth, there’s a very nice Victorian era home where Hiram Leonard once lived.
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Mike N
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#55

Post by Mike N »

Superb and much-needed research. Thanks.

As a native West Virginian, endnote 15 caught my eye where it read, “... a rifle made and stamped on a barrel by H. L. Leonard, Bangor, ME... was the property of a Mr. E. J. Noon of Piedmont, West Virginia.”

The 1924 West Virginia Blue Book lists Mr. Noon as a Vice President of a local bank in Piedmont, a small coal mining town located in the state’s Eastern Panhandle very near the Maryland state border. The nearby Allegheny Mountains would have provided fertile hunting for such a noteworthy rifle. The host of PBS’ popular “Finding Your Roots,” Henry Louis Gates, was raised in Piedmont in the 1950s.
Mike N.
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Member, NFLCC & FATC
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teter
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#56

Post by teter »

Such great research, everyone. The old pictures are great, but I also love the photo of Leonard's house as it appears now. I often drove through Central Valley and Highland Mills and visited the cemetery where Hiram, the Paynes and Edwards are buried, and wondered as I drove down the streets which houses they had lived in.
Last edited by teter on 04/05/20 22:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#57

Post by Pentalux »

Simply fantastic - thank you for sharing the pictures of the back of the property and rest - fantastic!

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#58

Post by jeffkn1 »

When you look in Keane's book you'll see an image that appears to be a photograph of that painting. If you have Keane, you know which image that is. Goes without saying the original photos are better.
Page 37 of Keane has two photos relating to the Sebec hatchery, the upper picture being a shot of Leonard and two unidentified men adjacent to one of the hatchery buildings, and the lower (canoe) photo being a cropped version of the image in Jerry's just-acquired stereoview card.
Jerry hopes to have the story of Leonard's hatchery involvement, together with the rest of Hiram's life, in a completed manuscript by the end of this year. Naturally, that would include the series of hatchery photos.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#59

Post by Woodlakejag »

Well he’s off to a good start with the article that started this thread. Add in some large glossy pictures of Leonard rods/guns/shop/catalogs/hatchery, and put my name on the list for a copy!
George
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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#60

Post by Pentalux »

Just arrived - (whats left of) an early round one with hanging rings, calcutta cane, four-strip tip and nickel silver seat (fully oxidized from age except for few spots where slightly cleaned) that looks as if it was a copy of old wood style seat with notched base for reel foot...
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