Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

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jeffkn1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#61

Post by jeffkn1 »

Rob, what's the length of the new beauty? Love the seat. That may be similar to what Andrew Clerk peddled in Europe in the early 1870's when Leonard and Clerk were first associated.

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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#62

Post by Pentalux »

Jeff,
The rod came from England. Butt section measures 50". I think this was originally sold as a 12 foot rod but technically think it measures out at 11 3/4' Just set it down next to the other first stamp I have and can't tell you how fun! Shocked how relatively similar the tapers and lengths are but from cane work it clearly looks like an earlier build particularly by the clear scraping of the edges of each flat to accomplish the round shape. Tip and butt section appear to be full length as are same length and general guide placement to other rod - mid is short but comparing the ferrules it is clear that they are original (initially thought these might have been replacements) as trim lines are in identical places but the subtle bevel to the slide is not present on this likely older of two rods. The tang or bottom point of ferrule is finer on the older rod as well and with the broken tip (can see it still centered in bottom of ferrule) thinking he then made them fatter. Earlier rod has an additional guide on the tip... Need to take a few more pics of female ferrule as curios of your thoughts on Jeff. They have been "Europeanized" with ferrule ties (what do you call those loops of wire above the ferrule to further secure the sections, once popular with early British anglers??) but are both stepped. Were these the standard ferrule for the London market? I also picked up an exceptional 10 1/2' 2/2 Malleson in excellent condition with original bag and wood tip holder and it has all brass hardware so thinking was specifically made for that market... Thanks again for being here Jeff!
PS - the bottom button of the rod is not rubber but wood

jeffkn1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#63

Post by jeffkn1 »

It's an exciting example for me to see, never having looked at one before.
Most of us are familiar with the story of Leonard being approached by Bradford & Anthony to make split bamboo in '71. What needs to be kept in mind are Leonard's own words in 1878 when he stated he'd been associated with Clerk in '71 "and I am with him yet." He spoke of how popular his salmon rods were in Europe. It looks like the loops are wrapped with the same color silk as the rest of the rod making me wonder whether they were put on in Bangor. Same thought about the knob's origin. Bangor was in the trade loop to the UK so Leonard would have been familiar with UK rods with their loops and knobs before he had to make a rod to be sold there. The ferrule loops are a holdover from splice rod days, a tradition that didn't die easily over there. Suction ferrules became SOP in the states pretty quickly but the process took a lot longer Over There.
What are ferrule sizes? Does it definitely feel like like a salmon rod, or just a long trout rod?
I'm still curious regarding to what extent Hiram made his own hardware. A current theory is that the reason for hiring metal men like Payne and Varney was because it was a skill he couldn't teach others himself.

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Pentalux
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#64

Post by Pentalux »

The wood button looks original. Here are a few of the female ferrules and close ups of the males. Just put it together and was surprised how well it fit. Still has remains of red silk in the rattan grip - from the level of oxidation its pretty clear that this rod had been sitting somewhere untouched for many, many, many years. It measures 11' 7" to end of button and oddly from the taper doesn't really look to have been modified - early British rods were often of various lengths as it was about action and overall length that mattered - is it possible this is original length? Feels like a long trout rod to me but tip is ever so slightly stiffer than the other early Leonard rod I have of same basic length... this was probably a super sweet rod in 1875...
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bluesjay
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#65

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I have a Scottish made Forrest of Kelso rod with the ferrule loops and wood reel seat button. It's not that old, but it's made in an old style. Might Leonard, since he was making for the 'European' market, have supplied rods to fit the taste of the time and place? I love this subject, but I worry about the pictures in the long term, for Photobucket reasons.

Jay Edwards

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bamboocollector11
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#66

Post by bamboocollector11 »

Beautiful rod Rob! Exquisite find.

Could you post pics of the new Malleson when you have an opportunity?

Thanks,
Ed

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#67

Post by Dark Waters »

Love this thread, keep them coming please!

Was watching bidding on the restored Bangor rod on La*g*s that was a beauty but I had already won 2 Leonard Mills reels so...

Booman2
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#68

Post by Booman2 »

I may have missed this, but will mention that the "Howells Leonard" was a very early Leonard rod, probably one of the first, and given to Gary's grandfather in exchange for legal work, I believe. The American Museum of Fly Fishing bought the rod from Gary and published a very informative article about it. I have a copy somewhere. Gary once told me that the rod had an interesting trip across the country, on a horse.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#69

Post by jeffkn1 »

Booman2 wrote:I may have missed this, but will mention that the "Howells Leonard" was a very early Leonard rod, probably one of the first, and given to Gary's grandfather in exchange for legal work, I believe. The American Museum of Fly Fishing bought the rod from Gary and published a very informative article about it. I have a copy somewhere. Gary once told me that the rod had an interesting trip across the country, on a horse.
Which you'll see here:http://amff.wpengine.com/wp-content/upl ... No3web.pdf

headwaters
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#70

Post by headwaters »

Thanks, Jeff!

jeffkn1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#71

Post by jeffkn1 »

bluesjay wrote:Hi Guys, I have a Scottish made Forrest of Kelso rod with the ferrule loops and wood reel seat button. It's not that old, but it's made in an old style. Might Leonard, since he was making for the 'European' market, have supplied rods to fit the taste of the time and place? I love this subject, but I worry about the pictures in the long term, for Photobucket reasons.

Jay Edwards
Jay

I never responded to your question but, based on the number of variations that Leonard produced in the 1870's, I'd say he was willing to make anything that anyone asked for. Those rods sold to European customers were, I think, all sold through Andrew Clerk, who was well familiarized with what the norms were in Europe.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#72

Post by Woodlakejag »

From Forest and Stream 1907
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jeffkn1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#73

Post by jeffkn1 »

Uh-oh, I can see you got sucked into the silly old historical stuff again. Keep this up and we'll have to take away your Google!
Boy, talk about taking liberties with the truth in that obit. Wow-ee, that's a beaut. I think that comes from 1) no knowledge of the decedent, 2) no knowledge of the decedent's vocation, and 3) poor note-taking. The F&S editor should have thrown that right back in the face of whoever wrote it. He got the first paragraph right and it was all downhill from there.
Manley Hardy was important and a very close friend of Hiram's. Hiram made him a pistol utilizing his ill fated two-shot action, and furnished Hardy with a nicely made shoulder holster for it. The combination was sold by the Hardy family to the late Dwight Demerrit , ofOrono, ME. Before passing, Dwight donated the pistol to the Maine State Museum, per his agreement with the Hardy family when they sold it to him. Some (all?) of Jerry Girard's two-shot Leonards came from Demerrit's collection, not surprisingly one of the best Leonard gun collections we ever saw as Demerrit authored Maine Made Guns and Their Makers. AJ used that book, BTW, as a primary source for his story of C.E. Wheeler.
Manly Hardy's biography was written by Dr. William Krohn, of Brewer, a regular member of our Tim Pond group.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#74

Post by Woodlakejag »

Here’s a photo of Hiram that was taken by EW Edwards.

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Available here

https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.e ... bClhH2QEWw
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cwfly
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#75

Post by cwfly »

Terrific find, George.
Thanks, Charlie
"History has a beloved cousin who has the family eyes and nose
but is a rather different creature - myth." Ken Cameron,
The American Fly Fisher, v. 28, n. 1, Winter, 2002, (AMFF, Manchester, Vt., 2002).

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ibookje
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#76

Post by ibookje »

The aristocratic look just adds to the mystery

jeffkn1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#77

Post by jeffkn1 »

A visit with rod maker Fred Kretchman the other day afforded me an opportunity to take a closeup look at the rod he purchased from the Jay Vargas estate auction a few years back. It's unusual in several ways and, though I don't know which stamp it has, I will guess it was made during Hiram's lifetime. Two things that jump right out are the gold-washed hardware, and the use of snake guides in place of straps and rings. Fred had inspected the guides up close, paying particular attention to footprints of missing guides, and it appears that the snakes were factory original. Thread colors are dark red with black, with two departures from normal: no signature wraps, and intermediates in clusters of three (b-r-b) rather than individual. Under magnification, there was no ghosting from any other wrap pattern. It may not be possible to establish whether the rod came from the factory this way, but Leonard certainly did a fair amount of custom work so it's not unreasonable to consider this a presentation rod. The stickers on the rod tube are a testament to at least a couple of trips to Europe.
Fred's tentative plan is to replace the missing guides and thread work, matching the originals.
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Bamboocollector#1
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#78

Post by Bamboocollector#1 »

Beautiful rare rod!
Thanks for sharing Jeff & Fred!
Previously known as bamboocollector11

Woodlakejag
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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#79

Post by Woodlakejag »

Woodlakejag wrote:
04/04/20 18:52
The building was on Laura Lane in Central Valley, NY, which was on Woodbury Creek. Here is a picture of it identified on a 1903 map of Central Valley:
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Here’s a picture from 1881 that shows the back of the building and Woodbury Creek:
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And a picture from 1903 when a third story was added
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And a current map that I marked with a yellow square where I think the building would have stood before it burned down in 1964.
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Adding an image from the 1904 Sandborn Fire Insurance Map that describes the function of each of the three stories.

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Re: Leonard in Hiram's lifetime

#80

Post by Woodlakejag »

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