Copal varnish - who has any experience with it?

jeffkn1 · Post by **jeffkn1** » 03/19/08 04:35

Never tried it but I'm curious about it. Several of my earliest rods had copal varnish finishes.

Housatonic Quill · Post by **Housatonic Quill** » 03/19/08 06:14

Jeff -
My experience with copal varnish is very limited, but I can tell you a few things:
- In the 19th century, copal resin was a partially fossilized tree resin found in South America; today, I'm not so sure - I think it's used almost as a generic term for any tree resin, no matter how old, so what we can buy now as "Copal varnish" may not be the same as the old rod makers used.
- It came in 2 forms: "spirit" varnish, where the copal was dissolved in ether, or "oil" varnish, where the copal was dissolved in heated linseed and/or other oils. The spirit varnish was hard as the devil's toenails, with good adhesion to NON-flexible surfaces. I have to imagine that only the slightly softer oil form was suitable for fishing rods, and that's the only form I have any experience with.
- It's self-leveling, making it almost ideal for a brush application; since the oil form is pretty slow-drying, the surface can be reworked even after the varnish has started to gel - it's almost as if the stuff reliquifies.
- It yellows fairly quickly, sometimes so deeply you'd have to say it "browns."
- It has a natural, very deep, high gloss.
- I've never seen any data on its water-resistance, but any time I've used it (and that's only the modern form), it's seemed to be pretty waterproof.
That's the limit of what I know - I'd be interested in your info on what makers used it and in what timeframe. Wasn't it also used as a coach varnish?
Dave

cwfly · Post by **cwfly** » 03/19/08 06:57

The Quill is, as usual, correct. Copal varnish was used for a variety of things. Some 19th Century landscape painters, and earlier, used it (Hudson River school, for example) and it was indeed used as a coach varnish and later as an automobile varnish. I have always assumed that when it was said the Fred Thomas used an English body varnish that came in big tall 1 ½ foot tall cans, and was the same as was used on cars, the reference was to Copal varnish since that is what was used. In Dry-Fly Fishing, 1889, Halford wrote that although he thought the English made better rods than Americqns, the American rods had better varnish. He noted that Henry Wells had written that he used Valentine's coach body varnish, and Halford surmised that Wells was referring to copal varnish and recommended its use. Here's a photo of a 14" can (1890's) of English copal varnish with graphics of a coach.

Housatonic Quill · Post by **Housatonic Quill** » 03/19/08 13:04

Magnificent graphic, Charlie - where DO you get these things?

jeffkn1 · Post by **jeffkn1** » 03/20/08 01:35

An 1800's newspaper article I read (of course I can't put my hands on it at the moment) referenced rods being finished off with the best 'coach varnish', which I have been thinking was copal. I'm curious whether an old Sole Agents Leonard of mine was done in copal. The finish on this rod seems to wear quite well. It was impervious to alcohol and 0000 steel wool when I tested a small area. Also, the finish on this rod has circumferential age cracking and I don't recall seeing that effect on rods before. It doesn't need to be stripped so I won't do it but the difference was noticeable. I'll try to add a photo tonight.

I also have an Ed Hoar rod that was subjected to hot storage while on a formcase and the exposed surfaces peeled off in long sheets while the other side required something a lot more aggressive than alcohol. Formby's stripper and steel wool finally did the job. Of all the rods I've stripped, the old Leonard and the Hoar were the two toughest.

cwfly · Post by **cwfly** » 03/20/08 04:35

Jeff, IMHO it is likely that the varnish was copal. An article in the May 1863 New York Coachmakers Magazine[/i] reported that Stimson, Valentine & Co. of Boston was New England's largest manufacturer of varnish. The firm occupied four separate buildings, each used for a distinct manufacturing operation, with a distinct 7 story building in Boston. The article noted, "The principal ingredients used are gum copal, linseed oil, and spirits of turpentine: these articles form the bulk of all varnishes; but in addition to these, the following are a few of the many other ingredients used to obtain the various kinds wanted, viz.: sandarach, shellac, mastic, Venice turpentine, mastic in tears, dried copperas, white copperas, litharge, sugar of lead, alcohol, gum aurum, amber, &c., &c.; but the most prominent of all is the gum copal. This article exudes spontaneously from two trees, the Rhus Copallinum and the Eleocarpus Copalisferus, the first of which grows in South America, the latter in the East Indies. A third species of copal-tree grows on the coast of Guinea." In 1866 the Valentine brothers became sole owners of the firm and then in 1870 the firm relocated to Brooklyn, New York - with its office in Manhattan. It retained an office Boston. In 1906 "Valspar," reported to be the first "clear varnish" was developed and in 1932 Valentine & Co. became a subsidiary of the new ly formed, and the name we recognize as Valspar Corporation. I also read that until 1835 American coaches used polishing varnish (as was and may still be used for pianos). A Mr. Lawrence, a coachmaker in New York, discovered that English carriages which had superior varnish had brush marks and were not polished. He began the importation and then the secret process for manufacturing English varnish shortly thereafter. It was in 1870 that Valentine announced it had developed a varnish superior to imported varnish. IIRC it was the Valspar company that had noted the excellent ability of Omar Needham, when he was at Orvis, to apply its varnish to rods. In sum, the fact that Valentine made copal varnish and was the largest varnish manufacturer in New England, and after its move to New York perhaps the largest in the country, would lead me to conclude that it is likely that Mr. Leonard and others were using its coach varnishes. Yes, this or both more and less than you or anyone else would care to know about the subject but it's all I could find on short order. Charlie

PaducahMichael · Post by **PaducahMichael** » 03/20/08 14:11

Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas Recipes Processes" encyclopedia, by Norman W. Henley and others. Copal Varnish Very fine copal varnish for those parts of carriages which require the highest polish, is prepared as follows: I Melt 8 pounds best copal and mix with 20 pounds very clear matured oil. Then boil 4 to 5 hours at moderate heat until it draws threads; now mix with 35 pounds oil of turpentine, strain and keep for use. This varnish dries rather slowly, therefore varnishers generally mix it one-half with another varnish, which is prepared by boiling for 4 hours, 20 pounds clear linseed oil and 8 pounds very pure, white anime rosin, to which is subsequently added 35 pounds oil of turpentine. II Mix the following two varnishes: (a) Eight pounds copal, 10 pounds linseed oil, 0.5 pound dried sugar of lead, 35 pounds oil of turpentine. (6) Eight pounds good anime rosin, 10 pounds linseed oil, 0.25 pound zinc vitriol, 35 pounds oil of turpentine. Each of these two sets is boiled separately into varnish and strained, and then both are mixed. This varnish dries in 6 hours in winter, and in 4 hours in summer. For old articles which are to be re-varnished black, it is very suitable.

PaducahMichael · Post by **PaducahMichael** » 03/20/08 14:21

Housatonic Quill wrote:Magnificent graphic, Charlie - where DO you get these things?

http://www.arteauto.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2326

For some exotic varnish from a US varnish making shop: http://www.violinvarnish.com/default.htm