Orvis Database Update

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paramount
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Re: Orvis Database Update

#21

Post by paramount »

Hi Gregg,
Possible database correction? I own the 8 1/2' 3 piece Battenkill with the ser. #20616. The database says that it is a 5oz rod with 17/11 ferrules. The white and green paper label on my tube is very worn, but, I can make out 4 & ?oz, also I can see 8 1/2' 3pc, and what appears to be 16-10 which I assume to be ferrule size. I measured the ferrules and they appear to be 16-10. I can try and take a couple of closeup pics if you need them.

Thanks, Bruce

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#22

Post by Greg Reynolds »

paramount wrote:
01/07/21 18:32
Hi Gregg,
Possible database correction? I own the 8 1/2' 3 piece Battenkill with the ser. #20616. The database says that it is a 5oz rod with 17/11 ferrules. The white and green paper label on my tube is very worn, but, I can make out 4 & ?oz, also I can see 8 1/2' 3pc, and what appears to be 16-10 which I assume to be ferrule size. I measured the ferrules and they appear to be 16-10. I can try and take a couple of closeup pics if you need them.

Thanks, Bruce
Change made, which will appear online before long. Thank you Bruce...

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#23

Post by Spruce »

Hi Greg,

Just picked up a rod and see it's not in the database so here goes:

Battenkill s/n 29659
7 1/2' 2pc, 2 tip, 12 ferrule, 3 3/4oz, HDH line
Silver aluminum tube with blue gold white paper label and gray bag

made April 5, 1961
sold May 10, 1961 to AF San Francisco (guessing Abercrombie & Fitch)


Now here's my dilemma that I need expert advise on from the Forum (anybody please!): I also have this same 7 1/2' 3 7/8oz rod from 1973. Which should I keep to fish?

The biggest difference I see is that the newer rod has a bigger diameter first line guide but closer to the reel seat (about 1 1/2")

I guessing both being in the same condition would value$ them equally.

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Orvis Database Update

#24

Post by Greg Reynolds »

Hi Spruce,

Thanks for the information on #25695. It will appear in the mid-year update.

The 3 3/4-oz and 3 7/8-oz models, while functionally equivalent, are not the same taper. The former was designed for diameter-based silk lines, while the later was introduced in 1963, the year Orvis adopted the AFTMA weight-based line standards.

All things being equal in terms of condition, there's no difference in value. Just keep the rod you like best. That said, my choice is always for earlier models, just because I like them.

Regards,
Greg

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#25

Post by Spruce »

Greg Reynolds wrote:
02/07/21 10:14
Hi Spruce,

Thanks for the information on #25695. It will appear in the mid-year update.

The 3 3/4-oz and 3 7/8-oz models, while functionally equivalent, are not the same taper. The former was designed for diameter-based silk lines, while the later was introduced in 1963, the year Orvis adopted the AFTMA weight-based line standards.

All things being equal in terms of condition, there's no difference in value. Just keep the rod you like best. That said, my choice is always for earlier models, just because I like them.

Regards,
Greg
Thank you for the feedback. I did not know this and my preference is for the older rods as well so it looks like we know which direction this will go.

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February 2021 Orvis Database Update

#26

Post by Greg Reynolds »

The latest revision of my database has been posted on the Antique Rod and Reel Library website. There are 644 new rods in a total of 33832. You'll also find a transcription from the ever-so-scarce 1946 Orvis catalog. Please see the table of contents--there's a lot more useful information on the database than just records of rods.

Thank you to my host Richard Alexander, Paul and the forum members that have contributed.

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flyrod
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Re: Orvis Database Update

#27

Post by flyrod »

HUGE THANKS Greg for all your hard work hosting and keeping the Orvis Database up to date :D

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Kenneth
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Re: Orvis Database Update

#28

Post by Kenneth »

flyrod wrote:
02/16/21 17:59
HUGE THANKS Greg for all your hard work hosting and keeping the Orvis Database up to date :D
Couldn't have said it better!

Kenneth

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#29

Post by Greg Reynolds »

Thank you guys...

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#30

Post by OldCane »

Greg,

Is there any idea for the number of unmarked & without S/N kit rods that Orvis sold over the years? How about the number of Montague blank rods? Besides the Model 99 I presently own (included in the list) I also own an 8' (2/1) kit rod (60's era) and also a Montague/Orvis rod. I owned and sold a few other Orvis rods back in the 80's, but didn't record the S/N's.

Don
I don't have a PhD, but I do have a DD214.

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#31

Post by Greg Reynolds »

OldCane wrote:
02/17/21 14:55
Greg,

Is there any idea for the number of unmarked & without S/N kit rods that Orvis sold over the years? How about the number of Montague blank rods? Besides the Model 99 I presently own (included in the list) I also own an 8' (2/1) kit rod (60's era) and also a Montague/Orvis rod. I owned and sold a few other Orvis rods back in the 80's, but didn't record the S/N's.

Don
Hi Don,

I don't know how many rods were made in collaboration with Montague, or for how long.

In the sales records for fiscal year 1968, there's mention of 546 blanks being sold, but the models aren't itemized. I don't know if that's a typical number--it's far more than I expected.

Best,
Greg

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#32

Post by OldCane »

Greg, My 8' 2/1 kit rod is a Battenkill style rod in all appearances with the exception of no markings plus end user applied guides/wraps. I bought an Orvis 2 pc rod bag for it. Didn't spring for one of their Al tubes, used one I had here from Cabela's.
I don't have a PhD, but I do have a DD214.

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#33

Post by G-ManBart »

Hi Greg,

I have an update addition/correction for you. I just purchased serial number 87383, which is a Madison 8', 4 1/4 oz marked HDG (6) with two tips. It's got a full wells grip and a cocobolo reel seat with black hardware. The tube is black, green and silver label and a brass cap. The sock is the tan style with fish on it.

The odd thing is this serial number is already listed in the database, but shows 3 3/4 oz rather than 4 1/4 oz....any idea?

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Orvis Database Update

#34

Post by ibookje »

Could you post a picture of your Madison? Full wells grips are fairly rare sight on Orvis rods

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Orvis Database Update

#35

Post by Greg Reynolds »

G-ManBart wrote:
07/04/21 20:52
Hi Greg,

I have an update addition/correction for you. I just purchased serial number 87383, which is a Madison 8', 4 1/4 oz marked HDG (6) with two tips. It's got a full wells grip and a cocobolo reel seat with black hardware. The tube is black, green and silver label and a brass cap. The sock is the tan style with fish on it.

The odd thing is this serial number is already listed in the database, but shows 3 3/4 oz rather than 4 1/4 oz....any idea?
Hi,

The catalog weight (which is the weight I record in the database) for the 8 foot, 12/64-ferrule Madison is 3 3/4-oz. BTW, I have a photo of #87383 from one of its sales--it's a interesting rod with its Wells grip.

I added the information on the bag & tube, which will appear in the January 2022 update.

Regards,
Greg

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#36

Post by G-ManBart »

Greg Reynolds wrote:
07/05/21 07:37
Hi,

The catalog weight (which is the weight I record in the database) for the 8 foot, 12/64-ferrule Madison is 3 3/4-oz. BTW, I have a photo of #87383 from one of its sales--it's a interesting rod with its Wells grip.

I added the information on the bag & tube, which will appear in the January 2022 update.

Regards,
Greg
Hi Greg,

Thanks. I suspect the catalog weight must be a typo. I only have a handful of catalogs on hand, but the 1988 catalog lists the rod as 3 3/4 oz as you show, but the 1994 catalog shows 4 1/4 oz which matches the rod markings. Both have the same part number J9780-51-62.

The one thing I wonder is that the same rod is listed in my 1977 catalog as 3 3/4 oz but it had a cork reel seat. At some point they changed reel seats, but maybe didn't edit the catalog in time to match the changes since the rod is clearly marked 4 1/4 oz.

The rod I have weighs 4.6oz on a postal scale...the different grip might account for some of that.

The 1988 catalog:
Image

The 1994 catalog:
Image

On the scale:
Image


Image
Last edited by G-ManBart on 07/05/21 21:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#37

Post by G-ManBart »

ibookje wrote:
07/05/21 04:19
Could you post a picture of your Madison? Full wells grips are fairly rare sight on Orvis rods
I don't have a great full-size picture, but here's one of the grip:


Image

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#38

Post by Greg Reynolds »

G-ManBart wrote:
07/05/21 20:43

...Thanks. I suspect the catalog weight must be a typo...
Your right, the 3 3/4-oz weight is for the cork-locking reel seat. Orvis listed that weight through 1989, apparently well-after switching to
the wood spacer. I made the change on the database.

BTW, there are transcriptions of most-all of the post-1939 Orvis catalogs on the database--scroll to the bottom to find them.

Best...

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#39

Post by G-ManBart »

Greg Reynolds wrote:
07/05/21 22:40
G-ManBart wrote:
07/05/21 20:43

...Thanks. I suspect the catalog weight must be a typo...
Your right, the 3 3/4-oz weight is for the cork-locking reel seat. Orvis listed that weight through 1989, apparently well-after switching to
the wood spacer. I made the change on the database.

BTW, there are transcriptions of most-all of the post-1939 Orvis catalogs on the database--scroll to the bottom to find them.

Best...
Sweet! Thanks for the info on the catalogs and for all the database work....I'm sure it takes far more time than people realize. I'm hoping to have my hands on a few additions in the near future :)

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Re: Orvis Database Update

#40

Post by NoWhereMan »

Thanks for the updates
Last edited by NoWhereMan on 08/20/21 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

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