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 Post subject: To the Dry or die guys
PostPosted: 05/22/20 13:12 • # 1 
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IYHO should your tippet float all the way to your dry fly imitation or submerge slightly.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 13:18 • # 2 
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Submerge slightly.

That is why I personally like flouro in small diameter tippets.

Back in the days Armstrong Creek in Montana was ''free" i spent a lot of vacation time out there. And on a lot of other spring creeks within 100 miles of it. Learned pretty quick that the little bottle of" leader sink" solution material was a real requirement to the complete perfect presentation of dry flies.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 13:34 • # 3 
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Thanks Bee and thanks for the response.This article sparked my inquiry,i have fished both ways and actually prefer a floating tippet but have no hard evidence on which one is more productive.https://paracaddis.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ets-float/


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 13:39 • # 4 
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This is interesting. One thing I make sure to do is pull the knot at the hook eye down to encourage the fly to sit lower in the water and not have any to tippet slack in the air.

I've often felt that using flour would encourage drag, maybe running it off of a regular leader could be interesting. What makes me love this idea is how sometimes when the fish aren't taking your fly they will take it submerged.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 13:52 • # 5 
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Rarely hurts, but situation dependent.

Eager feeders on a high gradient freestone, not really necessary.

Coaxing an extra spooky 4 year old brown on flat water, possibly essential.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 14:08 • # 6 
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I have found that flouro in 5x and 6x does not cause too much of a floating problem and may be beneficial sometimes (and it is way stronger, Seaguar Grand Max as an example).

However, it is amazing how fast the thicker flouro sinks. Put a 1" piece of 3X mono in a clear glass of water. Tap it under the surface film. It will hang and then sink very slowly.

Now try the same with flouro 3X. Sure is nice for nymphing!

A tenkara rod, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 14:33 • # 7 
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I dont use flouro on my tippet, just use the normal stuff, 5x and 6x mostly for dries. If the tippet floats, its easier to detect drag on the fly.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 14:42 • # 8 
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I agree that it is better to sink the tippet. I go back and forth between fluoro and nylon. If I’m using nylon, I use a little Snake River Mud to sink it.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 14:44 • # 9 
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I'll go either way depending on what's already on the leader, if I want it to float better I grease it up.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 14:55 • # 10 
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Years back, I asked Al McClane the same question. To paraphrase his reply, all tippets cast a shadow, but a sunken tippet also creates a reflection against the mirror like "window" of the surface. He said his tippets always float. Since then, so do mine. YMMV :-) BTW, I asked the question in the context of dry flies.

Eric

A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 15:42 • # 11 
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Eric Peper wrote:
Years back, I asked Al McClane the same question. To paraphrase his reply, all tippets cast a shadow, but a sunken tippet also creates a reflection against the mirror like "window" of the surface. He said his tippets always float. Since then, so do mine. YMMV :-) BTW, I asked the question in the context of dry flies.

Eric


Interesting Eric.
A friend of mine, Greg Pearson (who you've probably met on the H-Fork), discovered another interesting thing about sunken tippet. He was filming underwater Atlantic Salmon flies on the swing on the York, Gaspe, Quebec, swinging them on casts to the submerged camera in gin clear water on a bright day.

When he studied the videos later that night, he noticed that the tippet and leaders of both clear flouro and mono, threw sparks of light underwater as the sun hit it throughout the swing.

The next day they went back and filmed brown-tinted Chameleon, and it did not throw the light sparks, but rather apparently absorbed the light, almost like a polaroid lens.

A tenkara rod, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 16:14 • # 12 
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Brooks wrote:
Eric Peper wrote:
Years back, I asked Al McClane the same question. To paraphrase his reply, all tippets cast a shadow, but a sunken tippet also creates a reflection against the mirror like "window" of the surface. He said his tippets always float. Since then, so do mine. YMMV :-) BTW, I asked the question in the context of dry flies.

Eric


Interesting Eric.
A friend of mine, Greg Pearson (who you've probably met on the H-Fork), discovered another interesting thing about sunken tippet. He was filming underwater Atlantic Salmon flies on the swing on the York, Gaspe, Quebec, swinging them on casts to the submerged camera in gin clear water on a bright day.

When he studied the videos later that night, he noticed that the tippet and leaders of both clear flouro and mono, threw sparks of light underwater as the sun hit it throughout the swing.

The next day they went back and filmed brown-tinted Chameleon, and it did not throw the light sparks, but rather apparently absorbed the light, almost like a polaroid lens.


Maybe this is part of the reason why fishing bright days (especially with a low ceiling) can be so tough, and why during these conditions you may get smaller uneducated fish.

I'm really enjoying this thread so far!


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 16:47 • # 13 
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They don’t come much more die hard dry fly than me, and I’ve done it both ways. The jury is still out. They both have their uses depending on conditions but having said that, I do probably lean a little towards the submerged flouro end of the spectrum. Just have to watch your drift carefully and be mindful of your mends.

Trout don't live in ugly places...


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 17:25 • # 14 
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Hi Guys, uo..


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 17:39 • # 15 
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I am among the driest and I do not sink my tippet. I am of the mind that dry fly fishing is all about the drift. The more you can do to get the longest drag free drift possible the more "luck" you will have. Sinking tippet is another driver of drag and so I would never try and sink the stuff. I do not like flouro tippet for this reason, also the fact that it does not biodegrade.

I fish leaders that float high (zen outfitters silk) and I want my leaders to stay up top. I do not add floatant to the tippet but I like to see it on the surface too. If I see my tippet and or leader is below the film I will stop/dry/treat or swap it out. This is part of the reason I like the loop/loop and tippet ring configuration of Zen leaders. If I am catching a lot of fish I will often stop and switch leader and tippet, heck it only takes a minute.

Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it. T.R.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 19:36 • # 16 
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I really don't pay too much attention to sink/float for the tippet since I always try to present the so the fish sees the fly first. I do tend to like sinking or a neutral tippet for dry fly but that is just my preference. With regards to Fluorocarbon versus regular mono there is a difference and anyone who has compared the two mounted in water viewed side by side through a polarized light microscope will agree. Fluorocarbon seems to be most effective for subsurface presentations for the obvious reason (refraction). I do however think that the mirror effect from intense sunlight is real when lines are floating or in the film.

Low Profile


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 20:13 • # 17 
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Eric Peper wrote:
Years back, I asked Al McClane the same question. To paraphrase his reply, all tippets cast a shadow, but a sunken tippet also creates a reflection against the mirror like "window" of the surface. He said his tippets always float. Since then, so do mine. YMMV :-) BTW, I asked the question in the context of dry flies.

Eric



Wow, thank you Eric. I'm listening in intently. This could be quite important...

I grease my tippet all the way up but a friend who taught me much when I first began 20 plus years ago doesn't do that IIRC.

The particulars/small stuff makes a ton of difference imho.


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PostPosted: 05/22/20 21:22 • # 18 
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It's an interesting thread with opinions all over the spectrum. Is there anyone out there who uses both? I carry both, and usually use mono because I mostly fish small freestone streams where the fish aren't picky, the current is fast, mostly I'm using dries and like the flies to float, and mono is cheaper. I occasionally break out the flourocarbon if I'm fishing flatter water like the Missouri and fish are rising but I'm not getting too many strikes - but I suspect that it isn't the leader material causing the refusals. With the density of drift boats rivalling the density of trout on that river I mostly avoid it anymore, but if you focus on those kind of waters I suppose it might make a difference.

Fish take flies all of which which have a rounded metal point coming out the bottom of the abdomen. How solid is it to assume they are put off by the visible difference between flouro and mono underwater? I've also read articles discussing abrasion resistance, how much the materials absorb water and how that affects breaking strength over a day of fishing, density, knot strength, visibility etc. Probably for 90% of the fishing we do it doesn't make a practical difference.


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PostPosted: 05/23/20 09:40 • # 19 
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I never seem to have the choice of sinking or floating tippet. I am working hard just to keep the fly floating. Beyond that, if the fly is drifting well, I do not pay much attention. I use Rio leaders and a piece of Rio tippet. Not flurocarbon for drys.

I am not a dry or die, but dry is now I fish most of the time. Anything else is too hard.


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PostPosted: 05/23/20 09:44 • # 20 
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Bill Moschler wrote:
I never seem to have the choice of sinking or floating tippet. I am working hard just to keep the fly floating. Beyond that, if the fly is drifting well, I do not pay much attention. I use Rio leaders and a piece of Rio tippet. Not flurocarbon for drys.

I am not a dry or die, but dry is now I fish most of the time. Anything else is too hard.


Use a Gink type solution to grease your tippet.


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