Let's take a look at some unusual/scarce Orvis fly rods

[jhuskey]

An outstanding example of a relatively modern Orvis bamboo rod!

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Scott, I see the similarities. I came close to seeing them in person ;-) Nice pick up of a rod that rarely is seen on the secondary market.

Cheers,
Joe

[Flyman615]

There's a duplicate 125 to mine on eBay right now, FYI.

Scott

[driftless angler]

I saw on this thread that a 7/3 with a superfine grip is kinda rare. I just got this 2/1 yesterday. I didn't see the serial # in the database. It is 80654.

We got up to 47 degrees this afternoon, so I did some backyard casting (couldn't wait!). I like my rods on the slower side and have some fiberglass rods slower than this 7/3, so I wasn't OMG this is slow. My biggest adjustment will be the small grip. I like my rods slow and grips big, I guess. It felt real nice to me with a SA Supra 3wt line. I liked it with a couple WF4 lines too. I see on the forum that some like to underline this rod, but I didn't like it nearly as much with a 2 wt line.

When there is little wind and small flies are on the Driftless menu, I can see getting along with this rod very well!!!

[jhuskey]

I had always thought the Seven Three standard grip was the Superfine, probably wrong though. Spring is coming.

[Greg Reynolds]

I had always thought the Seven Three standard grip was the Superfine, probably wrong though. Spring is coming.

You're right, a Superfine grip is standard.

The MCL Seven/three variant with the SL cork reel seat isn't very common. Also, #80654 has a locking ring that isn't pared with a sliding band, a configuration only used on some MCL rods in 1976 & 1977.

It's a neat rod and will appear in the January database update.

[driftless angler]

Hey Greg, thanks for the clarification and for addition to the database!

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

I had always thought the Seven Three standard grip was the Superfine, probably wrong though. Spring is coming.

To further clarify, the Superfine grip with the two thin sliding rings reel seat was the standard grip on the Seven-Three 2-tip rod when it was introduced.

[Flyman615]

FWIW, I would not characterize any of the Orvis 7/3s (Seven/Three) as either unusual or scarce by any means. On the other hand--and in my personal experience--it's probably the most 're-cycled' of all the Orvis bamboo rods. (I know I sold mine pretty quickly.)

It is, rather, a special use rod, in my opinion. It seems you either like the super-slow (soft) action, or you don't. And you either have local waters/situations suitable for its unique characteristics and light line weight or you don't.

Just my 2 cents as the OP here.

Scott Z.

[Greg Reynolds]

Here's a rod I was aware of but didn't expect come across. It's Battenkill #10179 completed on 5/26/49. It was built in a lot of 10 rods and recorded with the improbable length of 6' 11" with 10/64 ferrules. Others in the lot are 7-foot rods. These were never cataloged, so I'll speculate they were experimental rods perhaps similar to the Seven/three introduced in 1972.



If recorded in the Orvis ledger correctly, it's likely unique:
10179 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 6' 11" - 2 Built by George Reid
10180 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10181 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10182 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10183 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10184 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10185 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10186 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10187 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid
10188 5/26/49 Battenkill - 10/64 ferrules 7 - 2 Built by George Reid

The owner contacted me providing the photo above and only wanting to know it's value. He reported it to be in as-new condition and it certainly seems to be.

[cdmoore]

Greg, I'll take three.

[jhuskey]

I’d like to wiggle that one a bit. Thanks for sharing Greg, and thank the owner also. Rare rod indeed.

[Greg Reynolds]

FWIW, I would not characterize any of the Orvis 7/3s (Seven/Three) as either unusual or scarce by any means. On the other hand--and in my personal experience--it's probably the most 're-cycled' of all the Orvis bamboo rods...

Scott Z.

I agree the high grade Seven/three isn't scarce. The MCL Seven/three 1 tip variant was made in much smaller numbers though. Of 35,419 rods on the database, 39 are MCLs. Fourteen of those were listed for sale over the last ~25 years. Three had 1 locking band as seen in the post above.

While 39 of a single model is a significant number of rods for a small shop, it's a rounding error for Orvis. I think it's fair to say that if you want a MCL Seven/three, you might be searching for a long while.

[driftless angler]

Fascinating research on the 7/3 Greg! Thanks!

[Brian K. Shaffer]

Greg that 6'11 is a tremendous looking rod.
What a unique bit of history.
Looks fun too!

[mikepugh]

I've got another "no serial number" Battenkill Deluxe 6'6". I posted info and questions about it in the rod ID thread and @NewUtahCaneAngler suggested I repost here ...

I would appreciate any help available understanding a bamboo rod I just purchased. I hope it is the perfect rod for fishing in the Sierras this spring. FYI: I'm climbing the bamboo learning curve, so any info is new info to me. Thanks!

Here's what I see:

- The rod is inscribed with “Orvis - Impregnated, Battenkill, Deluxe", but I can’t find a serial number anywhere on it. The tube notes “Battenkill Deluxe, 6 1/2’ 2PC 11” and is also blank where the serial number goes on the label.

- The rod also has the inscription "Daulton Mann Jr, Peru VA, 3-9-55." I looked up Daulton Mann Jr and found that he was a politician from Virginia in the 50s and 60s, so the timeline and inscription make sense.

- The rod is 6'6", with one butt section and two tips. All three pieces are the same length and are in good shape. The cork grip is a bit dirty. I'd grade it a 7 (but I'm new to grading.)

- The rod tube is black, with a copper or bronze threaded end, and a silver screw on cap. It has a paper label that is pretty beat up, but is still legible.

- The tube, the tube label, the rod sock, and the rod all look like the Battenkill Deluxe rods I see on the Internet, with one exception: the first two guides (both on the butt) look like Aetna Foulproof guides I found on the internet. I found expensive Orvis bamboo rods on the antique rod websites that also have Aetna guides, so I assume they could be original to the rod, not replacements, but there was no discussion of them to confirm.

Photos provided below.

Sorry for the long story. All that said, I'm hoping to:

1. Understand the lack of a serial number.
2. Learn more about the use of Aetna guides.
3. Find out what reel and line I should use to fish it as intended.
4. Learn anything else you can share so I can document it for my sons (or whoever gets it next.)

Thanks in advance to anyone with ideas/insights on my new rod.

[Greg Reynolds]

Hi Mike,

The rod is wonderful, and I love the inscription. I'm very interested in the Deluxe and Superfine models and have spent way too much time researching them.

Yours is the 5th early Deluxe I'm aware of that doesn't have a serial number. The lack of a number on the label supports that it never had one. Based on condition, I'm confident none of the other 4 were originally serialized either. I don't why this is, but I'm always looking for clues. I believe the inscription actually reads "Peru Vt."--Peru being 10 miles northeast of Orvis in Manchester. Mine was made for a Manchester resident and it makes me wonder if there might be a connection.

Currently on the database:
unnumbered - "Battenkill Deluxe" - 11/64 ferrules, wood cap & ring reel seat, snake stripping guide, 6 1/2'
unnumbered - "Deluxe" - 11/64 ferrules, wood cap & ring reel seat, snake stripping guide, inscribed "Leon E. Wiley", 6 1/2'
unnumbered - "Deluxe" - 11/64 ferrules, wood cap & ring reel seat, snake stripping guide, inscribed "Doug Swisher", 6 1/2'
unnumbered - "Battenkill Deluxe" - 11/64 ferrules, 6 1/2, Wes Jordan, property of The American Museum of Fly Fishing

I'll be adding yours to the database.

Early Deluxe models had snake stripping guides as standard. Orvis sold Aetna guides at the time and used them in certain models. Daulton Mann probably ordered the rod with them.

A 2021 forum post on my early Deluxe:
viewtopic.php?p=926474#p926474

History of the Deluxe rods:
"The Deluxe was introduced as a 6 1/2-foot model in 1952. Lee Wulff was cited in the catalogs as the primary influence for its development.

There are two variants that year in the Orvis ledger--a 10/64-ferrule model (spring 1952) and an 11/64-ferrule model (autumn 1952). Only the 10/64-ferrule model is cataloged in 1952. See serial numbers 12873 and 13534-13538 on my database for examples.

If you scroll through the early 1952 rods on the database, you'll see several 6-foot, 10/64-ferrule rods, and a few other 6 1/2-foot 2-piece "Battenkills" that were most likely developmental rods leading to the Deluxe.

There are no analogous Battenkills cataloged at this point.

The 1956 catalog introduces the Deluxe series:

Deluxe 6 1/2-foot, 2-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7-foot, 2 5/8-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7 1/2-foot, 2 7/8-oz, 12/64-ferrule

The two longer models are lightweight versions of the analogous Battenkills. The Deluxe rods and 6-foot Superfine share a catalog page as "Orvis Impregnated Lightweight Rods". This lineup goes unchanged through 1962.

In 1963, Orvis changed the tapers of many of its significant models in response to AFTMA line standardization. The Deluxe series looked like this for 1963 only:

Deluxe 6 1/2-foot, 2 1/8-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7-foot, 2 1/2-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7 1/2-foot, 3-oz, 12/64-ferrule

I'm not really sure what to think of these. While possible, I have a hard believing that Orvis changed the entire Deluxe series tapers for only one year. I suspect that only the advertised weights were changed for the 1964-1966 catalogs to these:

Deluxe 6 1/2-foot, 2 1/4-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7-foot, 2 5/8-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Deluxe 7 1/2-foot, 3 1/4-oz, 12/64-ferrule

Still no 6 1/2-foot Battenkill in the line at this time; again, the two longer Deluxe rod share tapers with the analogous Battenkills. Their catalog descriptions are the same in all respects, other than reel seats & weights.

In 1967 the "Deluxe" name is retired. Leigh Perkins is at the helm, and I’ll speculate that this was just a housekeeping issue to simplify the "Orvis Impregnated Lightweight Rods" line. The 6-foot Superfine had shared a page with the Deluxe rods since 1953. The "Superfine" name had a long history with Charles F. Orvis Company, Inc., and I believe it made sense to keep it. In any case, the 1967 Catalog looks like this:

Superfine 6-foot, 1 7/8-oz, 1-piece
Superfine 6 1/2-foot, 2 1/4-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Superfine 7-foot, 2 5/8-oz, 11/64-ferrule
Superfine 7 1/2-foot, 3 1/4-oz, 12/64-ferrule"

I've fished a 6 1/2-foot, 2 1/4-oz Superfine (the last iteration of the Deluxe) extensively for almost 40 years and always with a DT5F line. It has a true medium action with that line. My 2-oz Deluxe is much faster and a DT5F doesn't load the rod at distances much under 25 feet. I switched to a DT6F Cortland Sylk line (cut in half) which was a great improvement.

I have a number of short Orvis rod and prefer small reels like the Hardy Flyweight, Featherweight, Marquis 4, St George Jr. and the Bougle "Baby". I always cut the double taper lines on these small stream rods in half so they fit with a little backing.

Hope this helps.

Greg

[Greg Reynolds]

BTW, the unnumbered Wes Jordan-owned Battenkill Deluxe in The American Museum of Fly Fishing also has Aetna stripping and 2nd guides.

[mikepugh]

BTW, the unnumbered Wes Jordan-owned Battenkill Deluxe in The American Museum of Fly Fishing also has Aetna stripping and 2nd guides.

Great validation that it was original to the rod. Thanks!