Joseph Boivin
Moderator: TheMontyMan
Re: Joseph Boivin
#4I have 2 in the GTRS one signed and one not, Boivin rods. Rare sticks and hard to find.
Re: Joseph Boivin
#6Yes, a perfect condition 10.0 ft. 3-2, Lancewood, rattan grip / Joseph Boivin - Maker - Quebec, Canada / labeled and clearly marked.
Mike
Mike
Re: Joseph Boivin
#7Hello again Montyman: OK, so I'm looking for some info help on a so-called rod maker.
I'm finding nothing on Joseph Boivin Rod Maker, Quebec, Canada? Info for a friend of mine.
The guys I did find were born too young, 1779, or too late 1890 to 1909, none have any affiliation to fishing tackle or firearms.
I have no idea who Andy Barr is or his affiliation with Boivin?
What I can say is that what information and photos of I have of Boivin's lancewood rods and pine caddies looks suspiciously like that of J.B. Daniels.
I mean, ditto knockoffs in shape, leather end caps and shoe nails, Chubb hardware and taper by J. Boivin comparing to J.B. Daniels rods & keepers.
I don't believe the Boivin rod has much value or even much collectability.
If you took that Boivin label off you could not tell the difference in makers.
So, do you have any light to shine on this mystery?
Thanks in advance, Mike.
I'm finding nothing on Joseph Boivin Rod Maker, Quebec, Canada? Info for a friend of mine.
The guys I did find were born too young, 1779, or too late 1890 to 1909, none have any affiliation to fishing tackle or firearms.
I have no idea who Andy Barr is or his affiliation with Boivin?
What I can say is that what information and photos of I have of Boivin's lancewood rods and pine caddies looks suspiciously like that of J.B. Daniels.
I mean, ditto knockoffs in shape, leather end caps and shoe nails, Chubb hardware and taper by J. Boivin comparing to J.B. Daniels rods & keepers.
I don't believe the Boivin rod has much value or even much collectability.
If you took that Boivin label off you could not tell the difference in makers.
So, do you have any light to shine on this mystery?
Thanks in advance, Mike.
Re: Joseph Boivin
#8Mike
The assumption has been that Daniels made his forms. I think he bought them from Chubb and modified them, including the addition of the leather end caps.
Daniels had a number of telltale characteristics on most of his rods. I say most because there was some evolution, in part because Chubb's hardware evolved. Earlier ones were wrapped in red, later were red & gold with red guide wraps and intermediates alternating colors. Later rods had butt caps pinned in three places. Also had a reinforcing wrap spiral from the last snake on the tip, up to the tip top. He also favored Chubb hex-shouldered ferrules with the reinforced females. His rubber stamp on the formcase was typical but I know of a Daniels salmon rod that had three separate lines stamped on alternating flats of the butt section. That example may have come in a partitioned canvas bag instead of on a form. Daniels is known for his bamboo fly and trolling rods but I have a 9 1/2' 2/2 splice fly rod executed in greenheart and put up on his typical form, one that he modified to accommodate the splices. A couple of Daniels in my collection have his handwriting in pencil, such as "9 1/2' 7oz. $7.00" on the splice rod form.Between the familiar writing and the leather endcaps I made it a point to be high bidder, even though it was being shipped down from Canada. That's the only rod I've seen from Daniels that wasn't split bamboo.
The Boivins I've seen have all been lancewood. I don't know if he did any bamboo or not. They are very, very soft, flexing well down into the butt section. The one I had was wrapped in red and had several spiral reinforcements. It was in a close-fitting form but I don't remember whether the end caps were wood or leather. The tie wraps on the form are often a narrow red ribbon material.
Forum member Tom Kerr did this post in response to a Boivin inquiry back in '09:
Very nice looking rod, Steve. My nicest Boivin is almost exactly like yours, but mine is a 1/2/3 format - meaning 1 butt, 2 mids, and 3 tips in the same type of tightly fitted form case. Your rod is 100%> lancewood. Somewhere in the mid to late 1880s or so - based on the folding ring guides and the spiral English tiptops. Also, this rod's hardware (reel seat, butt cap, nose check at the top of the rattan grip) were purchased from Thomas Chubb, a rod/rod hardware wholesaler/manufacturer from Post Mills, VT). His reel seat was patented in 1880. Boivin's later rods used a Canadian version of that same reel seat with more square-ish (TV) corners than Chubb's round version.
I don't have any information about Boivin himself, except that his name was Joseph. However, as spoken by Snow White's magic mirror, the fairest Boivin in the land still belongs to Canadian Patrick Daradick. His is a matched set of two older rods fitted into a hinged wooden box that fits into a leather case that could be strapped under the seat of a buggy.
Based on the now 8 rods that I've seen, there may have been more than one generation of Boivins, or two brothers, in the rod-making business. Wish that I knew more, but no one has done the research yet on the Canadian side of the border.
Daniels rods have a lot of backbone but lack the assembly finesse and nice varnish common to Boivin. The most recent Boivin to surface here has plain, weltless ferrules, unlike Daniels'. Why Boivin would sell any rods without his name is something I have no answer for but he was not the only maker who did that.
I would not rule out the possibility that Boivin bought Chubb kits and tried to give them a distinctive look. Actually, given Chubb's low prices, I don't see why anyone selling rods would bother to turn their own lancewood and put Chubb hardware on it when they could buy the kit with ferrules already mounted.
The assumption has been that Daniels made his forms. I think he bought them from Chubb and modified them, including the addition of the leather end caps.
Daniels had a number of telltale characteristics on most of his rods. I say most because there was some evolution, in part because Chubb's hardware evolved. Earlier ones were wrapped in red, later were red & gold with red guide wraps and intermediates alternating colors. Later rods had butt caps pinned in three places. Also had a reinforcing wrap spiral from the last snake on the tip, up to the tip top. He also favored Chubb hex-shouldered ferrules with the reinforced females. His rubber stamp on the formcase was typical but I know of a Daniels salmon rod that had three separate lines stamped on alternating flats of the butt section. That example may have come in a partitioned canvas bag instead of on a form. Daniels is known for his bamboo fly and trolling rods but I have a 9 1/2' 2/2 splice fly rod executed in greenheart and put up on his typical form, one that he modified to accommodate the splices. A couple of Daniels in my collection have his handwriting in pencil, such as "9 1/2' 7oz. $7.00" on the splice rod form.Between the familiar writing and the leather endcaps I made it a point to be high bidder, even though it was being shipped down from Canada. That's the only rod I've seen from Daniels that wasn't split bamboo.
The Boivins I've seen have all been lancewood. I don't know if he did any bamboo or not. They are very, very soft, flexing well down into the butt section. The one I had was wrapped in red and had several spiral reinforcements. It was in a close-fitting form but I don't remember whether the end caps were wood or leather. The tie wraps on the form are often a narrow red ribbon material.
Forum member Tom Kerr did this post in response to a Boivin inquiry back in '09:
Very nice looking rod, Steve. My nicest Boivin is almost exactly like yours, but mine is a 1/2/3 format - meaning 1 butt, 2 mids, and 3 tips in the same type of tightly fitted form case. Your rod is 100%> lancewood. Somewhere in the mid to late 1880s or so - based on the folding ring guides and the spiral English tiptops. Also, this rod's hardware (reel seat, butt cap, nose check at the top of the rattan grip) were purchased from Thomas Chubb, a rod/rod hardware wholesaler/manufacturer from Post Mills, VT). His reel seat was patented in 1880. Boivin's later rods used a Canadian version of that same reel seat with more square-ish (TV) corners than Chubb's round version.
I don't have any information about Boivin himself, except that his name was Joseph. However, as spoken by Snow White's magic mirror, the fairest Boivin in the land still belongs to Canadian Patrick Daradick. His is a matched set of two older rods fitted into a hinged wooden box that fits into a leather case that could be strapped under the seat of a buggy.
Based on the now 8 rods that I've seen, there may have been more than one generation of Boivins, or two brothers, in the rod-making business. Wish that I knew more, but no one has done the research yet on the Canadian side of the border.
Daniels rods have a lot of backbone but lack the assembly finesse and nice varnish common to Boivin. The most recent Boivin to surface here has plain, weltless ferrules, unlike Daniels'. Why Boivin would sell any rods without his name is something I have no answer for but he was not the only maker who did that.
I would not rule out the possibility that Boivin bought Chubb kits and tried to give them a distinctive look. Actually, given Chubb's low prices, I don't see why anyone selling rods would bother to turn their own lancewood and put Chubb hardware on it when they could buy the kit with ferrules already mounted.
Last edited by jeffkn1 on 01/04/22 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
- roycestearns
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Re: Joseph Boivin
#9I picked up a 12' lancewood Boivin from ebay because I needed the lancewood for a restoration.
Missing a tip and a mid ferrule and some hanging ring guides. Very "Chubbish" hardware throughout. The form is nicely done and the rod was labeled for the trade.
Label reads
Boivin Rod
The Chinic Hardware
Quebec
Missing a tip and a mid ferrule and some hanging ring guides. Very "Chubbish" hardware throughout. The form is nicely done and the rod was labeled for the trade.
Label reads
Boivin Rod
The Chinic Hardware
Quebec
Re: Joseph Boivin
#10Royce
What are the end caps on the form? I can't quite make out whether they're wood or leather.
What are the end caps on the form? I can't quite make out whether they're wood or leather.
Re: Joseph Boivin
#13Thanks, Tom. Given the scarcity of Boivins we could have been waiting a long time for photo comparisons.
- roycestearns
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Re: Joseph Boivin
#14Jeff, the form ends are definitely leather, the butt end in the picture is pretty dried out but the tip end is a bit better and easier to determine.
CWF Thanks for including the Chinic Hardward advertisement.
Interesting enough, looking at a B Nichols lancewood rod, the form is remarkably similar to the Boivin, this one has wood ends. I guess this is to Jeff's pt, so many of these makers were purchasing items from the same suppliers.
CWF Thanks for including the Chinic Hardward advertisement.
Interesting enough, looking at a B Nichols lancewood rod, the form is remarkably similar to the Boivin, this one has wood ends. I guess this is to Jeff's pt, so many of these makers were purchasing items from the same suppliers.
Re: Joseph Boivin
#15A friend just sent the Joseph Boivin lancewood fly rod to me, finally.
I'm trying to post pictures, hope they come out good.
I included pics of the form case and the original nails holding the leather end caps.
If you are pleased with the pics let me know about any questions.
I'm not going to restore this rod, it's better off left untouched.
Mike
I'm trying to post pictures, hope they come out good.
I included pics of the form case and the original nails holding the leather end caps.
If you are pleased with the pics let me know about any questions.
I'm not going to restore this rod, it's better off left untouched.
Mike
- roycestearns
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