Needham Special
Moderator: TheMontyMan
Needham Special
#1What can you tell me about this "Needham Special" by Omar Needham? Interesting grip size and shape. Any idea on the blank? Also the wraps are pretty chunky but cool I think.
Thanks in advance for any info or comments
Justin
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Thanks in advance for any info or comments
Justin
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Re: Needham Special
#2The cork shape is somewhat similar to the old Goodwin Granger "coke bottle" grip.
Re: Needham Special
#3I am very happy to see this rod. I have one very similar that some have written off as "funny business". Mine is marked " Needham's Special Hand made by O.H.Needham McFalls, Me." I don't think it is a "fake" Monty that someone is trying to pass off as a Needham made rod. If you were going to fake a Needham would you sign it "Mcfalls, Me."? Who the heck knows of any connection with Needham and Mcfalls, Me.? I would have signed it Rangeley Me. That's the area most associate Needham with. Rangeley is the name that would most attract a buyer. Mc Falls Me. is just going to leave them scratching their heads. A little research tells me that Mcfalls is a local abbreviation for Mechanic Falls, Me. Needham was raised in Mechanic Falls, Me. Needham is buried in the family plot in Mechanic falls Me. The first grocery store he and his wife ran was ten miles up the road in Norway Me.. He was making and repairing rods at that time. Now, The question is, was Omar a little fast and free with putting his name on rods he repaired or refinished? I have seen a rod marked "repaired by O.H.Needham." Was this rod made very early in his rod making career when he bought components from rod building suppliers? It's a little funny these two rods look quite similar. The letter formation in the "Needham's Special" signature on both rods are ,in my opinion, quite similar. Sorry about the picture quality. I'm doing my best.
- roycestearns
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 1826
- Joined: 06/10/08 18:00
Re: Needham Special
#4Omar's great grandson was on a previous thread and said that they had lived in Mechanic Falls.
Greg R posted the The 1940 census in the same census:
His later rods were much more traditional in grip and wrap. Later in the 40's Omar left Manchester and moved to the Rangeley ME area and his labels indicate that.
Greg R posted the The 1940 census in the same census:
So it makes sense that Omar was in Mechanic Falls and produced interesting rod configs like these in 37From the 1940 Manchester Village Census, while your Great Grandfather was working at Orvis. Your Great, Great Grandmother Elsie, Great Grandfather Omar, Great Grandmother Ruth are listed. Also listed is Orvis rod designer & rod shop manager Wes Jordan, who boarded at Elsie's house.
His later rods were much more traditional in grip and wrap. Later in the 40's Omar left Manchester and moved to the Rangeley ME area and his labels indicate that.
- Seabowisha Salmo T
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 1330
- Joined: 01/15/07 19:00
Re: Needham Special
#5hello, the post office where he picked up his mail was probably there in mechanic falls, may be even in his own store so it would be prudent to use that address on his rods.roycestearns wrote: ↑12/21/21 11:36Omar's great grandson was on a previous thread and said that they had lived in Mechanic Falls.
Greg R posted the The 1940 census in the same census:So it makes sense that Omar was in Mechanic Falls and produced interesting rod configs like these in 37From the 1940 Manchester Village Census, while your Great Grandfather was working at Orvis. Your Great, Great Grandmother Elsie, Great Grandfather Omar, Great Grandmother Ruth are listed. Also listed is Orvis rod designer & rod shop manager Wes Jordan, who boarded at Elsie's house.
His later rods were much more traditional in grip and wrap. Later in the 40's Omar left Manchester and moved to the Rangeley ME area and his labels indicate that.
regards, jim w
-
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: 01/19/07 19:00
Re: Needham Special
#6As posted by other members, Omar put his name on rods he refinished. possibly for resale locally in Maine, based strictly on the reel seat that one appears to be either HI or low grade Edwards??
Re: Needham Special
#7Other suggestion was high end South Bend.hopkintoncane wrote:As posted by other members, Omar put his name on rods he refinished. possibly for resale locally in Maine, based strictly on the reel seat that one appears to be either HI or low grade Edwards??
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Re: Needham Special
#8Hatch,hatch wrote:I am very happy to see this rod. I have one very similar that some have written off as "funny business". Mine is marked " Needham's Special Hand made by O.H.Needham McFalls, Me." I don't think it is a "fake" Monty that someone is trying to pass off as a Needham made rod. If you were going to fake a Needham would you sign it "Mcfalls, Me."? Who the heck knows of any connection with Needham and Mcfalls, Me.? I would have signed it Rangeley Me. That's the area most associate Needham with. Rangeley is the name that would most attract a buyer. Mc Falls Me. is just going to leave them scratching their heads. A little research tells me that Mcfalls is a local abbreviation for Mechanic Falls, Me. Needham was raised in Mechanic Falls, Me. Needham is buried in the family plot in Mechanic falls Me. The first grocery store he and his wife ran was ten miles up the road in Norway Me.. He was making and repairing rods at that time. Now, The question is, was Omar a little fast and free with putting his name on rods he repaired or refinished? I have seen a rod marked "repaired by O.H.Needham." Was this rod made very early in his rod making career when he bought components from rod building suppliers? It's a little funny these two rods look quite similar. The letter formation in the "Needham's Special" signature on both rods are ,in my opinion, quite similar. Sorry about the picture quality. I'm doing my best.
Here is the writing on the "Rebuilt"rod I have.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Re: Needham Special
#9Jcrouse, Needham rebuilt a rod, signed it as such and put a serial # on it? Well the plot thickens. Take a look at these pictures. I know they're screwed up but when I try to rotate them my computer says "'saving your changes something went wrong" so it is what it is. This rod blank looks Orvis. It has a serial # but I wonder if it is an Orvis blank and Needham put the serial # on himself? It doesn't look as neat as the Orvis serial numbers. The ferrules look Orvis, Guides and stripper don't look Orvis. The bag and tube are not Orvis. Reel seat doesn't look Orvis. The serial # threw me off. I assumed it was Orvis applied. On closer inspection it does not look Orvis. The configuration is 8' 2/2. When I looked it up it did not appear in the Orvis data base. Any opinions?
Last edited by hatch on 12/21/21 19:55, edited 3 times in total.
-
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 3233
- Joined: 12/23/10 19:00
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Needham Special
#10Tom--
See this old thread. I didn't see your handle in that thread. Based on the info in it, I think that's consistent with the view that the blank was made by others!
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=18600&p=197749&hil ... ne#p197749
Rupert
See this old thread. I didn't see your handle in that thread. Based on the info in it, I think that's consistent with the view that the blank was made by others!
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=18600&p=197749&hil ... ne#p197749
Rupert
Re: Needham Special
#11headwaters, Yes, I am of the opinion that Needham did not make his own blanks. Knowing he signed rebuilt rods I always wondered if the second rod I posted pictures of was a rebuilt Orvis that he signed (omitting the "rebuilt "part? ) The serial number (26904) threw me off. It is placed on the rod just as Orvis does and overcoated with varnish just as Orvis does. I looked up the # on the Orvis data base and it does not appear. I now think this is a serial number applied by Needham meaning something associated with his rod building portfolio. It appears he got an Orvis blank and Orvis ferrules and an aftermarket reel seat and guides and built a rod. There's nothing wrong with that. I have a half dozen Needham rods. I am not of the opinion he built any of the blanks. He attached the components, his wife did the wrapping and he applied the finish. That's what a Needham rod is. Just last summer I bought "Needham Delux" 8' 3" 2/2. I like all of them and I'll buy another if the looks and feel of it floats my boat.
This one thread answered questions I have had about these 2 Needham rods of mine that I've had for the past 25 years. Thanks
This one thread answered questions I have had about these 2 Needham rods of mine that I've had for the past 25 years. Thanks
Re: Needham Special
#12It has been suggested that the initial rod featured in this post could be a hi end South Bend or Horrocks-Ibbotson or low end Edwards? Can someone supply pictures of those rods so a comparison can be made. Can you include Reel seat , grip, grip check , guides and ferrules. I think we can be relatively sure Jcrusse's rod was built or rebuilt around 1937. The McFalls Me. rod I featured is similar ,with the exception of reel seat , so we might assume both rods are from around the same time period? The grip, grip check, and ferrules on both the "Needham Specials" look very similar to me. Can we assume they were built by the same company? Pictures might tell the story.
Re: Needham Special
#13Also would Needham have been in Maine in 1937 or in Vermont?hatch wrote:It has been suggested that the initial rod featured in this post could be a hi end South Bend or Horrocks-Ibbotson or low end Edwards? Can someone supply pictures of those rods so a comparison can be made. Can you include Reel seat , grip, grip check , guides and ferrules. I think we can be relatively sure Jcrusse's rod was built or rebuilt around 1937. The McFalls Me. rod I featured is similar ,with the exception of reel seat , so we might assume both rods are from around the same time period? The grip, grip check, and ferrules on both the "Needham Specials" look very similar to me. Can we assume they were built by the same company? Pictures might tell the story.
The wraps on this Needham's Special are kind if clunky and wide. I'm pretty certain that they are original, but the others Ive seen including hatch's above have a little more refined style. I wonder if this '37 rod was wrapped by Omar and the later ones, his wife, or if this is an early effort by her and she got a little more skilled as she went along?
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Re: Needham Special
#14From my take on history, Needham was a one-man fly shop--as Hatch says, he built up rods from disparate components, repaired them, tied flies, relabeled flies for resale, pretty much everything. I had an 8' hex I sold, but still have a 7 1/2 penta with his name on it. Very understated brown wraps. Where'd he get the sticks? Dunno. Fletchers in Rangeley was selling blanks in the 50s and 60s--. A Needham can be pretty much anything the way I see it--and as Hatch describes so well.
bb
bb
- Greg Reynolds
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 3087
- Joined: 12/21/04 19:00
- Location: The Laurel Highlands, PA
Re: Needham Special
#15It's a refinished 8-foot, 4 1/4-oz, 13/64-ferrule Orvis Battenkill. It was part of a production lot including rods #26890-#26900 finished in early January 1960.hatch wrote: ↑12/21/21 19:33...Take a look at these pictures. I know they're screwed up but when I try to rotate them my computer says "'saving your changes something went wrong" so it is what it is. This rod blank looks Orvis. It has a serial # but I wonder if it is an Orvis blank and Needham put the serial # on himself? It doesn't look as neat as the Orvis serial numbers. The ferrules look Orvis, Guides and stripper don't look Orvis. The bag and tube are not Orvis. Reel seat doesn't look Orvis. The serial # threw me off. I assumed it was Orvis applied. On closer inspection it does not look Orvis. The configuration is 8' 2/2. When I looked it up it did not appear in the Orvis data base. Any opinions?
The blued top guides and ferrules appear to be original as do the serial numbers. The stripping guide and stainless snakes are the same Mildrum guides used by Orvis after 1966. The seat is a modified Orvis SL seat based on the threads and locking rings.
I thought I remembered reading that Omar sometime used new Orvis blanks, but I went through every reference I have and can't find it. I took a photo of a short, varnished Needham rod (the only one I've handled) fitted with an Orvis dual-ring cork reel seat.
I added the rod to the database, and it will appear online in late-January.
It's a cool rod...
The Orvis Database: http://antiquerodandreels.com/databases/orvisdb
Re: Needham Special
#16The 1935 Lewiston (ME) city directory lists Omar as a guide, and living with Elsie R. Needham a widow who was running Needham's Cafe at 2 Yates Street, where they all lived. Elsie was 20 years older than Omar and , as we find later, was his mother. Omar's wife, Ruth, was also there. It may be only coincidence, but Lewiston is perhaps a 20 minute drive from "McFalls". The Needhams are in neither the 1936 nor 1937 directory. It's not too farfetched to think they left Lewiston after '35.
The 1940 Federal census has Omar, Elsie, and Ruth living in Manchester, VT and Elsie is Proprietoress(sic) of a tourist home while Omar is now a rod maker employed in "Shop". Elsie is Head of Household. They have one lodger, whose occupation is left blank on the form. Anybody want to take a stab at who the unemployed lodger was? Or has this been covered already?
Now, the 1940 census states that their "inferred" residence in 1935 was "Beamus" (sic), in Franklin County, Maine. There is a Bemis in the Rangeley area. Possible they went from Lewiston to Bemis, and then on to Manchester, VT. In Bemis, Omar likely would have guided. Can't say about Elsie.
The 1940 Federal census has Omar, Elsie, and Ruth living in Manchester, VT and Elsie is Proprietoress(sic) of a tourist home while Omar is now a rod maker employed in "Shop". Elsie is Head of Household. They have one lodger, whose occupation is left blank on the form. Anybody want to take a stab at who the unemployed lodger was? Or has this been covered already?
Now, the 1940 census states that their "inferred" residence in 1935 was "Beamus" (sic), in Franklin County, Maine. There is a Bemis in the Rangeley area. Possible they went from Lewiston to Bemis, and then on to Manchester, VT. In Bemis, Omar likely would have guided. Can't say about Elsie.
Re: Needham Special
#17Greg, Thanks for the info on the Orvis rod in this thread. I guess Omar might have been a little fast and free with putting his name on some of the rods he worked on. Perhaps "in the day" it was as innocent as having the attitude "I brought this rod back to life. Now it can be fished again so I'm putting my name on it." In current times a rod builders reputation would be badly damaged by signing other peoples work. In our hobby I guess this is a part of the Needham saga.
Re: Needham Special
#18I'm going to guess Wes Jordan.jeffkn1 wrote:The 1935 Lewiston (ME) city directory lists Omar as a guide, and living with Elsie R. Needham a widow who was running Needham's Cafe at 2 Yates Street, where they all lived. Elsie was 20 years older than Omar and , as we find later, was his mother. Omar's wife, Ruth, was also there. It may be only coincidence, but Lewiston is perhaps a 20 minute drive from "McFalls". The Needhams are in neither the 1936 nor 1937 directory. It's not too farfetched to think they left Lewiston after '35.
The 1940 Federal census has Omar, Elsie, and Ruth living in Manchester, VT and Elsie is Proprietoress(sic) of a tourist home while Omar is now a rod maker employed in "Shop". Elsie is Head of Household. They have one lodger, whose occupation is left blank on the form. Anybody want to take a stab at who the unemployed lodger was? Or has this been covered already?
Now, the 1940 census states that their "inferred" residence in 1935 was "Beamus" (sic), in Franklin County, Maine. There is a Bemis in the Rangeley area. Possible they went from Lewiston to Bemis, and then on to Manchester, VT. In Bemis, Omar likely would have guided. Can't say about Elsie.
What do you think about my rod, Jeff? The '37. Do you think it's a South Bend Blank?
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Re: Needham Special
#19Justin
Correct. Wes Jordan was their lodger.
I don't sense any South Bend attributes in your rod.
Correct. Wes Jordan was their lodger.
I don't sense any South Bend attributes in your rod.
Re: Needham Special
#20Hmmmm interesting. Thanks.jeffkn1 wrote:Justin
Correct. Wes Jordan was their lodger.
I don't sense any South Bend attributes in your rod.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk