<()))>< Considering Moving

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Hellmtflies
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<()))>< Considering Moving

#1

Post by Hellmtflies »

"OK" I know this may seem odd but after sixteen years in Bozeman, Mt. my better half and I are considering moving. "Boze Angeles" has become completely blown out. It's over here. Not the town I was introduced to in the early eighties. Way too many people and development. Development here has become explosive. Developers are crushing this place. The costs are off the charts. An example is the fact that our home has more than doubled in value in just eight years. Taxes and traffic too. The loss of that small town feel have caused us to consider a move. I mean it has gotten off the charts here. The recourses like fishing, hunting, hiking, skiing etc. are being overrun. It no longer is " The Last Best Place". >:(
So, we are considering getting the heck outta here. Now, the question is where to go? The place must be a town smaller than 20,000 with a warmer climate that has trout fishing, grouse hunting and a good golf course in close proximity. We have a condo in N.C. but too far east from trout etc. So, give me a few ideas folks. Where to go? The place needs to be able to accept a couple that is completely retired and older than middle age, has a steady income, though modest, and lean to a moderate demographic. Ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts? Let me know.
Thanx! Mark

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carl otto
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#2

Post by carl otto »

Mark:

1) Low home cost
2) Little or no taxes
3) Availiable good trout fishing and grouse hunting (golf courses seem to be everywhere)
4) Warmer climate (not too hot, not too cold)
5)No traffic
6)Small town population with necessary amenities (good hospital, city services, shopping, utilities, etc.)

If these all exist in one place, like a great unpublised trout stream, no one is going to tell you where.

Unfortunately we now live in a marketplace that is instantly advertised and rated, with a population of wealth that is fluid and attracted to those "last best places". You live long enough and you see the great spotlight of desirability falls on one community after another and they are developed out of their posiitive attributes in a decade or so.

Do not despair, there is a path to acheive your goal. Alas, but not to put out in the public domian.

Carl

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ibookje
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#3

Post by ibookje »

Come to The Netherlands Mark! :rollin

We got:

* densely populated cities (although not LA or NY City type of cities)
* no mountains so lots of coarse fishing
* just a few fly shops
* traffic jams every morning and late afternoon
* gas prices through the roof
* great cheese
* housing prices going nuts too

I'll hand you one of my Stalkers as welcome gift! ;)

PYochim
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#4

Post by PYochim »

Mark, I think you will find that wherever you go. Our home has increased in value but that means it will cost more to replace. My wife keeps talking about moving but the thought of it doesn't appeal to me at all.

tyghguy
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#5

Post by tyghguy »

Mark. I feel your pain. I don't even think of going near Bozeman these days. Last trip to Montana was enough for me. The culture has completely changed. My town, Portland, Oregon, has been going down hill ever since it was named the best city in America. Now it must rank as one of the worst! I agree with what Carl said. He summed it all up pretty well. Good luck to you, and don't tell anyone if you find it. Jerry

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Hellmtflies
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#6

Post by Hellmtflies »

Thanx guys. Carl I know you are correct. It happened here and will happen again in the next " Best Place ". I'm glad I won't be around here in 30 years.

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BigTJ
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#7

Post by BigTJ »

5 years ago I could have thought of a half dozen places to suggest but at this point I’m at a total loss. It seems the bill is now coming due for decades of unchecked development and population growth. Climate change and environmental degradation, densification, rising taxes, inflation, pandemic. Did we really think that these hidden costs of development would not come back to bite us?

I look at the garbage piling up in my local river and my favorite lakes and seashores and ask myself how long can this continue before the food chain starts to collapse? I pulled the milk crate below out of the river and a 20 yd stretch of riverbank in 20 minutes. How much of that plastic is making it into the food chain? There never used to be trash like this 20 years ago. Watching in real time the collapse of west coast steelhead runs is equally heartbreaking. It’s the new normal and it’s not really escapable so it seems like we just have to get used to it since as far as I can see it’s nothing but status quo on the horizon.


Image
Last edited by BigTJ on 01/03/22 12:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Brian K. Shaffer
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#8

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

Branson, Missouri - The fishing is pretty good but the traffic is bad.

Mountain Home, Arkansas - The fishing is great and zero traffic jams.

(You didn't say no tailwaters.)

ibookie - Some would move to Netherlands FOR that Stalker. Ha ha.
Last edited by Brian K. Shaffer on 01/03/22 12:53, edited 2 times in total.
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

Cortland Fly Line is still the bee's knees!

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bamboo rodley
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#9

Post by bamboo rodley »

The interesting thing is that most everyone thinks like you, nothing unique about it at all. Thus all the beautiful, remote places have become overrun, and the people who live there can't understand why, but only the natives have the right to say they aren't part of the cause of the problem. I recently read a book that advocated people living in densely populated cities and leaving what's left of the natural areas to remain that way. Makes sense, but not to developers. If there is money to be made, their principles are out the window. Anyway, worth considering moving to a metropolitan area that is in striking distance of trout fishing, and taking up camping along with fishing. Lots of golf courses in bigger cities, and once you get into the rhythm, it isn't as bad as people portray it. And the cultural benefits are far superior to rural living.

Bill T
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#10

Post by Bill T »

Different scenery than Montana, bit would agree with Brian that Southern Missouri/Northern Arkansas would hit a number of your items on the list. Trout, Climate, Taxes,cost of living, and golf. Not sure how the ruffed grouse are there.

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BruceHandley
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#11

Post by BruceHandley »

Mark
We have most of what you are looking for, a stable population of about 20,000, golf, trout fishing (and salmon and bowfin). The taxes are livable, can still get a nice home for abut $150,000, and the local population is friendly. The only downside is that you get to have cold weather for about 5 months, but that may change in the near future. In the old days a temp. of -20 to -25 was not out of the question, last winter only had one day of -5, walking the dog every day is getting better.
Bruce

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mcflyfish
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#12

Post by mcflyfish »

Mark...an interesting challenge that many of us have faced.
I chose to live closer to my kids (at least they are on the same coast!) and transition to warm water fisheries. I can fish every day all year for bass, bluegill, crappie, etc and even hit inshore saltwater stuff now and then...and I don't even have a boat! Savannah is about 150K and one consideration you did not mention was availability of quality medical care. I think you are a bit younger than me (not a lot) and even though we maintain active, healthy lifestyles...one never knows what is around the bend and I consider quality medical care something to think about...no more than a couple hours drive to a metropolitan area.
Yes...I miss my trout fishing...and I am still able to camp...so I travel out west a couple times a year (spring/fall). Also...I have decided to fill in my 'bucket list' with trout trips to Chile and Alaska.
I have not done much exploring over in SE Tennessee or NC but I understand there is some great trout fishing over there on the tail waters....just have to understand the releases....and drive 6 hours!
Might suggest you contact Booman2 on the forum....he is just north of Portland (again...similar problems as Boz Angeles) but he is more familiar with places in central Washington and Oregon that may fit your needs...unfortunately...many face the same issues as Bozeman.

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BigTJ
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#13

Post by BigTJ »

If you want to move to Oregon it's going to be tough to find someplace suitable based on your list. I'm sorry to say but the fishing west of the cascades and north of Eugene for trout sucks. You'll find yourself driving over the hill to fish the D, and when you get there, mostly encountering hoards of anglers like the Madison. Most rivers in the valley and out on the coast have anadromous fish in them and the runs are pretty much toast. The trout fishing in Southern Oregon on the other hand is excellent. I would have said Medford but it's turned into a zoo. Eugene isn't bad, but it's getting overrun, and hardly any flights from the airport. K falls and Roseburg are nothing to get excited about, no major airport, no culture, no health care to speak of. At least the weather is way better than Bozeman. Definitely look before you leap. If I had to pick a place to live in Oregon, it would probably be Eugene, but if you aren't at least a little liberal or you don't like hippies, then you'll probably hate it.

For anybody spending any time in the rural PNW, don't leave anything of value in your car, and be sure to get a security system for your home, beause the tweakers are out in force. I came back from a morning of steelheading to find one sleeping in the bed of my truck. I almost drove off with her in the back. It's nuts.

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gt05254
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#14

Post by gt05254 »

Paul Schullery just moved back to Manchester, VT after years in Bozeman. Same reasons as you (plus the smoke) and I think he made a good choice of new location...but I'm biased living 20 miles south of Manchester, still in VT. There's a lot to like here (incl. grouse and trout). Oh, and for quite awhile, we were the most vaccinated state in the Union. Don't know where we stand at the moment.
Gary
Last edited by gt05254 on 01/03/22 14:54, edited 1 time in total.

GerardH
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#15

Post by GerardH »

Hellmtflies wrote:
01/03/22 10:44

So, we are considering getting the heck outta here. Now, the question is where to go? The place must be a town smaller than 20,000 with a warmer climate that has trout fishing, grouse hunting and a good golf course in close proximity. We have a condo in N.C. but too far east from trout etc. So, give me a few ideas folks. Where to go? The place needs to be able to accept a couple that is completely retired and older than middle age, has a steady income, though modest, and lean to a moderate demographic. Ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts? Let me know.
Thanx! Mark
From the perspective of someone in the western Great Lakes states, I can say we have many small-to-mid sized communities with close proximity to quality trout fishing, grouse hunting, golf courses, etc. I would dare say world class medical too. But regarding climate and taxes, this region won't check those boxes.

Deer ticks are almost unavoidable year round now and there have been an increase in cases of blastomycosis in recent years, it's getting tough to be an outdoorsperson these days.

Good luck.

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kermit
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#16

Post by kermit »

Well Mark, I left California for most of the same reasons. I'm settled in now just outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico https://eldoradosf.org/. I can find plenty of room to stretch my legs without too many people or heavy developments in my local area. The perfect place with all your desired amenities may be hard to find. Recently, I thought it would be a good idea to make a move to Salida Colorado. When it comes down to it, it seems the grass is always greener on the other side, no matter where you're at!

Boo
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#17

Post by Boo »

Is Missoula as bad as Bozeman?

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hatch
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#18

Post by hatch »

Be prepared to give up some things to get others. I think that's reality.

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Hellmtflies
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#19

Post by Hellmtflies »

Boo wrote:
01/03/22 16:43
Is Missoula as bad as Bozeman?
WORSE!!! We used to own property on Rock Creek just east of town. We were going to move there originally. Purchased it in 1992. Sold it after twenty years as the traffic on "The Creek" was awful. As for fishing there during the Salmonfly hatch it was like bumper boats back then. So, we came to Bozeman in 2004. Awesome then but not now. I don't go near the major rivers like the Madison, Yellowstone or the Gallatin from Memorial Day to Labor Day. The last time I drove down Paradise Valley I stopped to check out the Fishing Access at Point-O-Rocks. I counted twenty-six boat trailers there. How can anyone enjoy fishing in that kind of traffic. And, pay $500.+ dollars for the ride. Sad.

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Hellmtflies
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Re: <()))>< Considering Moving

#20

Post by Hellmtflies »

Anyway, thank you to all that have responded. Tons if information to process.
Mark

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