Thomas Special Cane Fly Rod

[Troutbeck]

I have a Thomas Special 8 1/2 ft Dry Fly Rod cane rod with the number 21 stamped in the butt of the reel holder base. Does this mean anything particular in terms of the rods vintage and value?

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

I have a Thomas Special 8 1/2 ft Dry Fly Rod cane rod with the number 21 stamped in the butt of the reel holder base. Does this mean anything particular in terms of the rods vintage and value?

hello, troutbeck; probably only worth controversy, not vintage or value. some believe it is an inventory number to allow for prestaging reel seats of certain lengths but not yet proven. owner of thomas rod co. has commented he suspects it pertains to a possible model number at least in fred thomas' mind.

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

I have a Thomas Special 8 1/2 ft Dry Fly Rod cane rod with the number 21 stamped in the butt of the reel holder base. Does this mean anything particular in terms of the rods vintage and value?

in addition, wow! 21 is an early and unusual (rare) number. usually two digits are in the thirties. a. j. and i discussed two digit numbers, he wanted to someday investigate the possible meaning. my comments above concern single digits only(senior cognitive distress), and may be ignored. there probably is a difference between single digit and two digit markings.

regards, jim w

[Troutbeck]

Thank you, for the very prompt reply. I greatly appreciate the information. Does this rod have some value that I should be concerned about?

Ron

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

Thank you, for the very prompt reply. I greatly appreciate the information. Does this rod have some value that I should be concerned about?

Ron

hi again; not to be concerned, but valuable - dependant upon condition. use the search feature by inserting "f e thomas rod" here or on google, pour a large cup of good coffee, sit back and read; then return to the forum and ask any questions you might have remaining. be assured you have a rod made by one of the best rodmakers of all time.

regards, jim w

[Troutbeck]

Thank you, Jim. I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me. The harsh realty is I’m very limited in what I can do any longer. Eventually I’ll just sell all my rods, my reels, and my antiquarian book collection. But slowly…..

Where are you located, Jim, if you don’t mind my asking. I’m in SE Idaho.

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

Thank you, Jim. I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me. The harsh realty is I’m very limited in what I can do any longer. Eventually I’ll just sell all my rods, my reels, and my antiquarian book collection. But slowly…..

Where are you located, Jim, if you don’t mind my asking. I’m in SE Idaho.

most years in s e pa. on mason-dixon line, have king stone about 100 yards from house in pasture,
will give you time to read all the threads about f e thomas you want and will watch for any of your further questions. are you aware of p m's? found next to sign in - up at top of page. i will p m you.

regards, jim w

[Troutbeck]

I did indeed spot that option. Appreciate it, Jim!

[sunjpg]

Ron,

Many of us agree with the dating theory as described in the F.E. Thomas book by Stewart and Girard. I personally do for numerous reasons including seeing rod bags on which an owner inked the year they acquired the rod which matches the two digits on the butt cap.

Your rod would have been built in 1921 by this system.

Jay

P.S. post a few pictures please.

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

hello, as i discussed with a j, the two digit stamping could be a beginning of indicating when a rod may have been made; does not indicate when sold, some rods remained in the shop for years before sale. i felt that there were not enough unaltered two digit rods available for testing. i have had enough trouble assembling the single number rods i am documenting. no theory can stand without empirical proof and we have not seen any proofs offered, only surmising.

jim w

[sunjpg]

It is true that a rod could have been built in one year, but sold or delivered a year (or even two to four years) later.

The first column in the Thomas ledger on the far left is labeled "Date," the last column on the far right is labeled "Date Sent". Date is when the rod was completed, and Date Sent is just that -- when it was sent to the buyer. I've posted a copy of a ledger page that Marty Keane gave me in the 80s. Marty showed me the FET ledger several times in his home, and gave me several photocopies of pages that corresponded with rods I owned. You can find that ledger page by searching my posts.

Obviously, we are talking about pre-ledger rods in this thread, but the premise that a completed rod might remain in inventory for a year or more after completion was as likely pre-ledger as post-ledger. In the ledger, the stamp on the butt cap is always for the year the rod was completed, not for when it was sent.

There is actually quite a bit of evidence that corresponds to single digit or double digit numbers including rod bags on which the original owner inked the date they acquired the rod, letters or other provenance in which the date of the letter and the single or double digits agree, and as well as a FET valise rod I once owned in which owner's name and year acquired was inked on the rod (likely by the Thomas shop) and the year inscribed and the digits on the cap agree.

Early Thomas catalogs had rods listed as a model 1, 2, 3 or 4, and it has been theorized that the single digit stamped butt caps may reference such early rod models. (I've posted a copy of such a catalog page also.) But --- single digit stamps are often seen with a 7 or a 9 which I have in my personal collection.

I accept that these rods are most likely from 1917 or 1919, and that Ron's rod is most likely from 1921. Your opinion may differ which is ok, too.

Jay

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

hello again, jay; and the no number rods, banjo's lord of the rings rods, need to be explained. from my investigations, they all appear to be "sports". or "one-off" having no category in which they can be fitted.

regards, jim w

[sunjpg]

We're getting far away from the OP's original question, but he was asking about dating his rod.

In reply to your question about the FET rods with the concentric rings, the book states they are 1909 or earlier. These would be the earliest Fred Thomas built FET Rod Company rods.

I have a couple of these early rods and have seen several more with concentric circles. There are some common characteristics oftentimes seen with these rods such as bamboo tip tubes and a heavy canvas bag to hold the tip tube, mid and button sections.

Intermediates are usually, but not always present. Thread colors, wrapping style, reel seats and cork grip shapes may have a certain "early" style that is often seen in these rods.

I believe these "period characteristics" that are oftentimes seen in early FET rods is the basis of the 1909 and earlier dating theory. I suspect others can add more insight on this.

Jay

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

i do not think we are straying too far. he asked:does this rod have some value? answer is yes if it is in good condition and hopefully posessing two rare full length tips. he states dry fly so i wonder if he has the hang tag. probably a range from three to six would be a fair assessment depending

most of the no number rods i have are specials, so you would have the problem of the special model beginning in 1913. there are a lot of interesting angles and contradictions to this and norimassa and i have investigated a lot of them.
regards, jim w