no more snipe wings?

[slw]

I was just in contact with a fly shop about buying some stuff and asked about snipe wings. I was told that they aren't legally traded in the US any more. Something to do with a change in legal status regarding nonweb footed water birds. Supposedly that includes woodcock, and includes some European imports.
Anybody know more about this?

[Hellmtflies]

Unknown to me. I've tried to shoot them while hunting for Huns but there're the dam-nest thing to hit.

[slw]

FWIW, I just heard from Cookshill. They're out of stock, but say it's legal to sell them to US customers.

[Fats62]

Migratory Bird Treaty Act Protected Species (10.13 List)
MBTA AS OF APRIL 2020

https://www.fws.gov/birds/management/ma ... pecies.php

SNIPE, Common, Gallinago gallinago
Jack, Lymnocryptes minimus
Pin-tailed, Gallinago stenura
Solitary, Gallinago solitaria
Swinhoe's, Gallinago megala
Wilson's, Gallinago delicata

[slw]

From my online reading this afternoon:

Wilson snipe is the only snipe species native to North America. It's now apparently on the protected list.
Common snipe, Jack snipe, Solitary snipe, and Pin-tailed snipe are native to EurAsia, but may occur in North America as vagrants. They are all apparently on the protected list.

What I don't know is what the list is about. In some circles "protected" species refers to those that can be legally hunted and consumed under state and federal law. "Unprotected" species refers to species such as English starlings which can be taken by any means at any time.

[BigTJ]

In the mean time maybe consider picking up a ruffed grouse the covert wings are nice and dark mottled chocolate brown with caramel brown colors.

I've been using a CDC multiclamp so now I can tie my soft hackles of any size with whatever feather I want. Opens up a whole new realm of possibilities for substitutes for hard-to-find feathers. For example I can tie a sz. 18 soft hackle with 1" long bronze mallard fibers, it's awesome.

Between grouse (different phases), partridge, starling, quail, and duck flank, I think there's just about any feather a trout could ever want, without chasing the exotics, but maybe that's just me.

Cheers,

-John

[BigTJ]

Migratory Bird Treaty Act Protected Species (10.13 List)
MBTA AS OF APRIL 2020

https://www.fws.gov/birds/management/ma ... pecies.php

SNIPE, Common, Gallinago gallinago
Jack, Lymnocryptes minimus
Pin-tailed, Gallinago stenura
Solitary, Gallinago solitaria
Swinhoe's, Gallinago megala
Wilson's, Gallinago delicata

Mallard and wood duck are also on the list. I'm not sure that's the right list to reference.

[slw]

I get it. I was just wondering about a change that may or may not have taken place.

[joaniebo]

I copied these from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act Protected Species (10.13 List) MBTA AS OF APRIL 2020

Many of these listed are used on many of the old North Country Spiders and Soft Hackles.

The Migratory Bird Treaty Act makes it illegal for anyone to take, possess, import, export, transport, sell, purchase, barter, or offer for sale, purchase, or barter, any migratory bird, or the parts, nests, or eggs of such a bird except under the terms of a valid permit issued pursuant to Federal regulations. The migratory bird species protected by the Act are listed in 50 CFR 10.13. View more information and the list at Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

FROM;

https://www.fws.gov/birds/management/ma ... pecies.php


COOT, American, Fulica americana
Eurasian, Fulica atra
Hawaiian, Fulica alai

CURLEW, Bristle-thighed, Numenius tahitiensis
Eskimo, Numenius borealis
Eurasian, Numenius arquata
Far Eastern, Numenius madagascariensis
Little, Numenius minutus
Long-billed, Numenius americanus

DUCK, American Black, Anas rubripes
Eastern Spot-billed, Anas zonorhyncha
Falcated, Mareca falcata
Harlequin, Histrionicus histrionicus
Hawaiian, Anas wyvilliana
Laysan, Anas laysanensis
Long-tailed, Clangula hyemalis
Masked, Nomonyx dominicus
Mottled, Anas fulvigula
Muscovy, Cairina moschata
Pacific Black, Anas superciliosa
Ring-necked, Aythya collaris
Ruddy, Oxyura jamaicensis
Tufted, Aythya fuligula
Wood, Aix sponsa

GOLDEN-PLOVER, American, Pluvialis dominica
European, Pluvialis apricaria
Pacific, Pluvialis fulva

JACKDAW, Eurasian, Corvus monedula

AGPIE, Black-billed, Pica hudsonia
Yellow-billed, Pica nuttalli

MALLARD, Anas platyrhynchos

MOORHEN, Common, Gallinula chloropus

OWL, Barn, Tyto alba
Barred, Strix varia
Boreal, Aegolius funereus
Burrowing, Athene cunicularia

PLOVER, Black-bellied, Pluvialis squatarola
Collared, Charadrius collaris
Common Ringed, Charadrius hiaticula
Kentish, Charadrius alexandrinus
Little Ringed, Charadrius dubius
Mountain, Charadrius montanus
Piping, Charadrius melodus
Semipalmated, Charadrius semipalmatus
Snowy, Charadrius nivosus
Wilson's, Charadrius wilsonia

SNIPE, Common, Gallinago gallinago
Jack, Lymnocryptes minimus
Pin-tailed, Gallinago stenura
Solitary, Gallinago solitaria
Swinhoe's, Gallinago megala
Wilson's, Gallinago delicata

STARLING, Chestnut-cheeked, Agropsar philippensis
White-cheeked, Spodiopsar cineraceus

SWAN, Trumpeter, Cygnus buccinator
Tundra, Cygnus columbianus
Whooper, Cygnus cygnus

TEAL, Baikal, Sibirionetta formosa
Blue-winged, Spatula discors
Cinnamon, Spatula cyanoptera
Green-winged, Anas crecca

WIGEON, American, Mareca americana
Eurasian, Mareca penelope

[BigTJ]

That’s the same list. Mallard and wood duck are both on it yet you can get both in a fly shop legally. Just noticed teal too. So again maybe not the relevant list.

[GerardH]

The list is relevant, where the feathers come from is what matters. Wood duck and mallard feathers sold are from domesticated birds raised by licensed breeders. You cannot legally sell any parts of wild migratory birds (including songbirds). To my knowledge, there are no domesticated snipe, American woodcock, etc. European woodcock was legal, not sure what their status is now.

Native songbirds and raptors are also protected and it's illegal to possess feathers or any other parts from these species. Unprotected non-native species such as European starlings (Sturnus vulgaris) are legal to collect and possess body parts.

[BigTJ]

Thanks for the info totally makes sense. The snipe that has made it to US market has come from the UK from hunters. My guess is the restrictions are source related. So in other words, the treaty doesn’t keep the UK sellers from selling snipe harvested in the UK and that otherwise doesn’t run afoul of the treaty provisions.

In practical terms supply-side issues are probably the real impediment to obtaining snipe at this point. They aren’t that numerous, fewer hunters these days, tough to hit etc.

I feel fortunate to have been gifted grocery sack sized bags of wood duck and mallard from hunter friends that would have otherwise been thrown away, as well as from birds shot when I used to hunt.

John

[alberta al]

In Saskatchewan, the 2021/22 Hunters and Trappers Guide has the season for snipe and coot running from Sept 1st - Dec 16th. Limit is 10 a day with possession limit: three times daily. They are good on toast.

I used to shoot them during the duck seasons in the MidWest years ago. I bet they still have a season on them in IL, WI, MN, and IA.

[GerardH]

This thread is one of those sad reminders of the all those grouse/woodcock wings, snowshoe hare feet, pheasant skins/tails, etc. and I discarded the first 35 years of my hunting career. The last 10 years or so I've been collecting in earnest, but I'm not as intense of a hunter as I used to be and I haven't targeted some species (snowshoe hare) since the 1980s.

[Gnome]

Colorados snipe season for Wilson snipe Sept1 to Dec 431st per their regs manual statewide

[sjbarry]

It's perfectly legal to sell the feathers of many migratory game birds for fly tying, provided that the birds were taken legally by hunting. From the Code of Federal Regulations (50 CFR 20.91): Any person may possess, purchase, sell, barter, or transport for the making of fishing flies, bed pillows, and mattresses, and for similar commercial uses the feathers of migratory waterfowl (ducks, geese, brant, and swans) killed by hunting pursuant to this part, or seized and condemned by Federal or State game authorities, except that:

(a) No person shall purchase, sell, barter, or offer to purchase, sell, or barter for millinery or ornamental use the feathers of migratory game birds taken under authority of this part; and

(b) No person shall purchase, sell, barter, or offer to purchase, sell, or barter mounted specimens of migratory game birds taken under authority of this part.

So, no use of wild bird feathers in hats or trinkets, and no resales of mounted bird specimens.